The Emotional Toll on Church Leadership

Pastors and other ministry leaders are often under so much stress that they find themselves hanging on by a thread, oftentimes for years, ready to burn out from exhaustion or blow out morally. This is a huge problem facing the Church today. 

In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we talk about the alarming number of high-profile church leaders resigning, being fired, or walking away from the faith and why this may be happening so often. Is the Church a black hole for leaders?

Why aren’t more pastors overflowing with the love, joy and the peace of the Lord in their lives, families, and ministries? What is the cause of their emotional problems and moral failures?

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

  • Why we didn’t see this type of “leadership burnout” with Jesus and his disciples.
  • Alarming statistics about the levels of stress and low emotional and moral health of today’s pastors.
  • Why the ‘model’ that many churches follow is leading to leadership fallout.
  • Steps to take TODAY if you’re on the brink of resigning, being fired or burning out.

Get started here…

Church leader with hair on fire, emotionally burned out from the expectations of church leadership.

From this episode:

“The constant expectations that people put on their pastors, and their families–and that pastors put on themselves–can be devastating. Pastors are expected to be “on” and ready to give stellar leadership, neverending compassion, awe-inspiring messages, anointed prayer, and non-stop words of encouragement…pretty much all the time, not just on Sundays!”

 

Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…

Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion!

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Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.

 

Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.

Discipleship and Missional Resources

Missio Publishing

 

Join us on Facebook

Transcript
Caesar Kalinowski:

Pastors and other leaders in ministry are often under so much stress that they find themselves hanging on by a thread, oftentimes for years living that way, and they're, they're just so close to burnout from exhaustion, or maybe like a blowout morally.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And this is a huge problem facing the church today.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Think about it, the constant expectations that people put on their pastors and their families, and that pastors put on themselves, it can be devastating.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Pastors are expected to be like, on and ready to give stellar leadership, never ending compassion and awe inspiring messages and anointed prayers and non stop words of encouragement pretty much all the time, not just on Sundays.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And living this way and feeling the constant pressure to perform and move the needle up and to the right contributes to many leaders becoming stressed and depressed, or even worse, caught in compulsive and sinful behavior.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Or they may find themselves feeling so spiritually dry and tired of ministry angry at God, stuck in their careers or just really burnt out.

Heath Hollensbe:

Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.

Heath Hollensbe:

In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.

Heath Hollensbe:

This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.

Heath Hollensbe:

And now, here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Heath, man, I've seen a lot of you the last few days.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is

Heath Hollensbe:

such

Caesar Kalinowski:

a good time, man.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is good news.

Caesar Kalinowski:

How about, how great was Cigars and Theology Live?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, it was

Heath Hollensbe:

amazing.

Heath Hollensbe:

It's so cool to finally meet people that we know have listened to this show, people we've interacted with online.

Heath Hollensbe:

A bunch

Caesar Kalinowski:

of my coaching buddies, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Guys that we coach.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I know.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Really cool.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Swinging out

Heath Hollensbe:

here, smoking some cigars, enjoying some drinks.

Caesar Kalinowski:

If you did, if you missed it, you missed it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah,

Heath Hollensbe:

it's funny because we already have people asking like, would you guys do this again?

Heath Hollensbe:

Yeah, it's like, well, we'll see like sure like

Caesar Kalinowski:

to be fun I'd sure love to pass on how we do that and why it works the way it did anyway So thanks to everybody who came and whoo.

Caesar Kalinowski:

How fun was that?

Caesar Kalinowski:

All right.

Heath Hollensbe:

Hey today we are Burning cigars to burn out in the

Caesar Kalinowski:

church, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, jeez.

Caesar Kalinowski:

There's a good tie in, huh?

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is kind of a dark topic today a little bit But I

Heath Hollensbe:

think it's something that needs to be discussed I know you and I actually wrestled back and forth with is this is this a show we really want to do with the ramifications?

Heath Hollensbe:

We don't know everything that's kind of going on.

Heath Hollensbe:

But but today's topic actually came out of us observing a growing number of really visible, highly visible faith leaders that are now either resigning or being fired or Walking away from the faith saying everything from I just don't find the faith beautiful anymore or it's not for me What

Caesar Kalinowski:

what is going on?

Caesar Kalinowski:

What is going on?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Well, let me just say up front This is not gonna be one of those do these five things and it'll bulletproof your ministry kind of episodes Okay, because the issues that people are facing are so much more complex than that Okay, so because like like you just said we were we've watched and we're not gonna name names by the way Because we don't know most of these people personally some of them we do for most of them personally, but we're watching people who are like big decades long high level leaders, well known, everybody would know every name that we're thinking of and you got your own names, but like be fired, fall from, you know, like they're not living the right sin, leaving their marriages.

Caesar Kalinowski:

abuses, addictions, or just plain walking away and going, I don't think I believe this anymore.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like what?

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And so there's been so much of it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So all those reasons are different, but there are some common threads, I think.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And that's what you and I were talking about.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And so we're like, you know, I think we need to talk about for whatever the reason, there is a lot of leaders bailing, being bailed, you know, sent away and it's not good, man.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's just not good.

Heath Hollensbe:

I know for you, man, you've spent so many years in ministry in different contexts, and I'm just curious if you've actually, if that hits close to home, because I'm sure you've been around people that have, have been in the same situation, or maybe even yourself.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, well, I've seen lots of it, and I've felt the weight.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And the pull on myself, I can't, I can't, you know, say I haven't, but when it seemed overwhelming, it was always because I, or we as a team were pursuing quote unquote ministry activity that Jesus never asked us to do, or he did ask us, but we find ourselves doing it in our own strength, trying to, you know, look good and impress the wrong people and stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So yes, I have seen people burn out or have been put out of ministry.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Um, you know, It, it happens and I've seen people well restored, I've seen people just chuck it, all that.

Caesar Kalinowski:

But there is that common thread that what they're pursuing is not necessarily, like I said, for us, when we felt close to that edge was like, we're not, Jesus didn't ask us to do all this.

Caesar Kalinowski:

How did we find ourselves so focused on the wrong stuff?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And, and sometimes it's like, and why did we buy that building?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And why did we do this?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And how can we have so much money now we owe on that?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And that's not even ministry.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It has nothing to do with the mission, you know?

Caesar Kalinowski:

So yeah, I can feel this.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This feels close enough to me to feel real.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'm coming out of a

Heath Hollensbe:

season of working in an institutional church where I felt the same same thing I was having lunch today Even with William our buddy and was just saying the exhaustion of having to pull off, you know 15 Christmas services and then you get a week off or you're working well in the midnight on Christmas Eve and then you gotta get Up Sunday morning

Caesar Kalinowski:

and do it again.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh, dude, I know and we've known each other for years and it's like You know what?

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's like you're just like the paper thin

Heath Hollensbe:

But when I look at the life that I was living recently, and then I contrast that with the life of Jesus that we see in scripture, I don't see many examples of people around Jesus being burnt out because he's exhausting them to the point of burnout,

Caesar Kalinowski:

right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We really don't have any examples of people in Jesus life and ministry, uh, or people on his ministry team burning out.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know, and we have Judas.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That was a whole different story.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So, you know, whatever.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And maybe, maybe just maybe it was because Jesus wasn't taking his orders from the existing pharisaical lead team.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know, the board was not, you know, he wasn't submitting it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Jesus was always in communion and communication with his father, always taking time to spend time with his dad.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And Jesus also taught us.

Caesar Kalinowski:

to go to the source for our strength, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

I mean, take a moment, just soak up what Jesus invited his disciples when they were doing ministry and it was getting busy.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is from Mark 6.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like, here's what he says to them.

Caesar Kalinowski:

He goes, then, because so many people were coming and going that they did not even have a chance to eat.

Caesar Kalinowski:

He said to them, come with me by yourselves to a quiet place and get some rest.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I mean, it's very

Heath Hollensbe:

different than show back up Monday morning

Caesar Kalinowski:

and do it all over again.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Or like, Hey, don't worry.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Once we get through with the fourth service today, then we'll go ahead and we'll debrief all that.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And then Monday we'll be back on it again.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know, right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And up into the right, keep moving the needle boys.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I mean, look at these people.

Caesar Kalinowski:

They're all here.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like, this is our shot, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is our chance is the opposite.

Caesar Kalinowski:

He's like, no, let's get away.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know, you've probably heard me say this before.

Caesar Kalinowski:

What's.

Caesar Kalinowski:

What's more righteous or spiritual to stick around and do every bit of ministry that's possible to be done?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay, or get in a boat and row away?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Because Jesus did both right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, like he healed people like crazy and they said and enough let's go get some rest Yeah, cuz he knew right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

He knew he was close to his dad's heart and he wanted to make sure that his followers his brothers his family right were Also not getting sucked in because look at here, look at all these crowds.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh my God.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We're not used to having crowds around us, all that.

Heath Hollensbe:

Right.

Heath Hollensbe:

And one thing I think is super important to really get to the heart of the ministry issue, because I've seen a lot of ministry leaders actually guise their busyness and their burnout in like building the kingdom, serving Jesus love in the father love.

Heath Hollensbe:

Yeah.

Heath Hollensbe:

But.

Heath Hollensbe:

I think this is a really important time to, to get into the thing behind the thing, because it's really easy in ministry to hide behind ministry, and that's the exhausting thing, but what do you think is this behind the thing going on that so many leaders in the church today are either being, bailing, or being fired, or questioning, or checking their faith, and even marriage altogether?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Well, okay, a little bit of a long answer to that, but that's, it's worth it, trust me.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So I, a quick Google search today showed me that there are millions, man, millions and millions of articles and websites out there talking about ministry burnout.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Really?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Wow.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Millions, man.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You're not exaggerating.

Caesar Kalinowski:

No, no, no.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Literally millions.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like so many.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Depending on your search term, it could be 50 plus million.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Wow.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know what I mean?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

So, but check out some of these pastor stressed statistics, okay, from, from, from a really good site called soulshepherding.

Caesar Kalinowski:

org.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay, they're devoted to restoring pastors who are starting to feel like, Hey, I'm, I am fried and I'm going to be, I don't want to be a statistic.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So we check these statistics out.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Um, these, this is statistics on pastors, ministry stress, 75, 75 percent of pastors report being extremely stressed or highly stressed.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Wow.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Now, like we're supposed to be leading people and living the best possible life.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Imagine Jesus life.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And, but yet those who.

Caesar Kalinowski:

are fortunate enough to be called to lead.

Caesar Kalinowski:

75 percent of them are either extremely stressed or highly stressed.

Caesar Kalinowski:

90 percent work between 55 to 75 hours per week.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's a lot, man.

Caesar Kalinowski:

90 percent feel fatigued and worn out every week.

Caesar Kalinowski:

70 percent say they're grossly underpaid, so they're not being well cared for.

Caesar Kalinowski:

40% Report a serious conflict with those that they're trying to lead at least once a month and that's draining, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah 78 percent of these pastors interviewed were forced to resign from their church and 63 percent of them at least twice most commonly because of church conflict and 80 percent will not be in ministry 10 years later and only a fraction make it a lifelong career Wow.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's just, it's too, it's too tough.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So why aren't these pastors overflowing with the love and joy and peace of the Lord in their lives and in their families and in their ministries?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And what is the cause of their emotional problems and moral failures, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

What's going on?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Here's some other stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Statistics on pastors emotional health and their family and their morality.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh This gets darker.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Hold on.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's gonna get better people It's particularly deserving to see how much you know pastors are actually struggling with emotional pain Sure, and family problems and loving well and and dealing with moral failures.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay, so here's some of the stats on that 70 percent of pastors say they have a lower self esteem now than when they entered into ministry.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh Like, they're just, their identity is being crushed from a do to be lifestyle here, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

What you do equals your value, and if not, we'll fire you, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

70 percent constantly fight depression.

Caesar Kalinowski:

70%!

Caesar Kalinowski:

Holy cow.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Do you know how much higher that is than the national average?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Ugh.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's amazing.

Caesar Kalinowski:

50 percent feel so discouraged that they would leave their ministry if they could, but they, they can't find any other job that's qualified.

Caesar Kalinowski:

80 percent believe their pastoral ministry has negatively affected their families and 33 percent say that it's an outright hazard.

Caesar Kalinowski:

One in every three.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's an outright hazard.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Hazard to their family.

Caesar Kalinowski:

But 80 percent say, no, it's been negative for my family.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Uh, 80 percent of ministry spouses feel left out and unappreciated in their churches.

Caesar Kalinowski:

77%, this kills me, man, feel they do not have a good marriage.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So the pastors that, that we're talking about here, and a lot of them that have fallen lately or been fired or just chucked their faith and their families and their marriages and all that, they don't have a good marriage and they're not finding any joy.

Caesar Kalinowski:

30 percent are divorced or divorcing of pastors.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh my gosh.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Come on!

Caesar Kalinowski:

And 65 percent feel their families like living in a glass house, meaning like their whole family is now under the thumb of do to be.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So please hear this.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is like, now I'm going to get to the real answer.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Doing ministry that is mandated by God and led and empowered by his spirit, which is the power that raised Christ from the dead, the Holy Spirit, will never lead to burnout or falling away.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Amen.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I want to say it again.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yep.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Doing ministry that it's mandated by God and it's led and empowered by the Spirit of God will never lead to burnout or falling away.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know, even if you're God, that's a good father.

Caesar Kalinowski:

He's not going to set up a system.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This is how I want my church to run so that the, the people who've given the most to it are the most fried and fired.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And you know, families hate them.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Kids hate them.

Heath Hollensbe:

They're not,

Caesar Kalinowski:

come on.

Caesar Kalinowski:

There's no way that's what God's calling people to.

Heath Hollensbe:

You know, it's crazy, even as you were just saying those numbers, I've heard stats before, but like there's the closeness of these numbers.

Heath Hollensbe:

This is not like, Oh yeah, one pastor in the town, three cities away is feeling underappreciated.

Heath Hollensbe:

I mean, these are the touch points are so close, probably even your very own

Caesar Kalinowski:

pastor.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh, more than likely.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I mean, way more than likely.

Heath Hollensbe:

According to the just seems like this burnout or this fallout is something that we see tied to growing ministries.

Heath Hollensbe:

Uh, not operating out of the spirit, but trying to meet business metrics or, uh, grow the institution or hit certain denominational metrics.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We didn't see statistics like this within the church before the church adopted a corporate model.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yep.

Caesar Kalinowski:

By the way, you know, like when churches, we didn't have the mega church.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We, you know, and we hadn't embarked on the failed, in my opinion, and still failing church growth model.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know, remember 30, 40 years ago, we got into this whole like church growth model, secret sensitive, and wow, look how cool church is.

Caesar Kalinowski:

But back then, just to, just to put a little marker on it, about 70 to 85 percent of Americans, at least, that's where we live, uh, would have said that they were Christians and they were, they were connected to a faith community.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Now we're running what, in the twenties?

Caesar Kalinowski:

20 percent or something.

Caesar Kalinowski:

How's it a successful run?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, but that's what's produced all this burnout Yeah, this whole corporate model of doing life now, please don't hear this as we should not do churches We shouldn't do church services.

Caesar Kalinowski:

The family of God should not come together.

Caesar Kalinowski:

No, but what are you chasing is?

Caesar Kalinowski:

God called you to do this like is he are you actually making disciples of Jesus with Jesus empowered by his spirit?

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's never going to burn you out.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's all the rest of it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And this weird top down model and people who are in charge of other people, which is lording over in ways that Jesus was so strict about.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Don't live that way.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Don't do that to people.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's not how my father is.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Don't do that to people.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's the thing behind the thing that is leading to all this.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Man, you are

Heath Hollensbe:

absolutely right.

Heath Hollensbe:

I even know friends that have recently started churches and before they even get to their launches They're burnt out their their fundings pulled because they're not hitting the metrics that are put on them And it's like you're killing these people all the time.

Heath Hollensbe:

Yeah, you're killing

Caesar Kalinowski:

them before they even launch We did all the postcards we mailed them all out Easter just didn't have the numbers with you know that the denom wanted to see or whatever and and so it begins Yeah, so it starts now there again I'm not saying that you shouldn't gather, we shouldn't have churches, that a large family, praise God, of believers gathering up and hanging out, don't require some form of organization and things like that, but holy moly, we've got some serious rethinking to do when these kind of statistics, and just look in the news, and just look at, you know, you know who we're talking about, all the people that have either been had to leave or been fired.

Caesar Kalinowski:

or Chuck, their marriages, Chuck, their families.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I don't even know if I believe in Jesus anymore.

Caesar Kalinowski:

What?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, this is not producing health at the top level.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And guess what?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Cause you know, we've been involved in business and ministry always copacetically hand in hand, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And just like in business, it's the same in ministry.

Caesar Kalinowski:

The fish stinks from the head down.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It trickles down.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You go to a restaurant and you go like, man, the staff is always so nice.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like they are just the best.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like it's not the best food, but I love being there.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know what?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Meet the manager, meet the owner.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Same way.

Caesar Kalinowski:

They're great.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Or you're somewhere going like this place seems to be really funded well and like it's great and the food's great, but man, the staff just seems like they hate their life.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like you shouldn't work here.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like, right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Meet the owner, meet the boss.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Jerks.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know what I mean?

Caesar Kalinowski:

It all runs down.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So if, if our system of being the church.

Caesar Kalinowski:

is killing our leaders, really qualified, well trained, dedicated people, to the point of chucking their faith and families?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I think we Something's wrong.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, and you can't, you can't say, well, but not in my church, uh, at these statistics, if it's not yours, it's not yours yet.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And if you've got more than one pastor, you've got at least three, we know that one of them is feeling this way.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, their families are probably two out of three or their families.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh, man, this gets me going.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I just feel so bad.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And like, like we were talking earlier, I, I have felt close enough to this, to know how it feels and I've, and I've witnessed it in others.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And it breaks your freaking heart and everybody's like, Oh, what can we do?

Caesar Kalinowski:

We got to put up higher walls.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We gotta, we need more accountability partners.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We need more.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'm telling you, there's a systemic thing going on here where we're not.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Doing ministry that Jesus calls us to under his power and strength.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, and

Heath Hollensbe:

to be honest, that's where I was even, you know, a couple months ago Just hitting I would I would definitely be a statistic in many of those camps.

Heath Hollensbe:

Just call like marriage isn't great unhealth unhealthy depressed You know like it.

Heath Hollensbe:

Oh, I dude

Caesar Kalinowski:

I put on the face.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I love you so much brother Yeah, your countenance is just so changed in the last 90 days I'm not joking.

Heath Hollensbe:

So, uh, I mean a question that I just feel compelled to ask is like What would you say to listeners who are, who are in these positions feeling on the verge of burnout, or maybe their wives have been, you know, long enough, like, babe, you gotta, you gotta make a change.

Heath Hollensbe:

Or maybe they're already there.

Heath Hollensbe:

How would you encourage people who are feeling trapped, burnt out, uh, done with professional ministry?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Hmm.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Well, let me break it up.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'll, I'll talk practically for a second, and then I'll talk spiritually.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Practically, I think you have to pick your lead horse.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And what I mean by that is if you're leading in ministry and I know some people are gonna say well, but I'm not senior pastor And so I don't get to make these decisions Well there again if you feel trapped in a role That's only a paycheck then you have a choice to make right but sure pick your lead horse Are is it gonna be are you gonna be about discipleship or professional ministry activity like moving the needle up and to the right all?

Caesar Kalinowski:

The time hmm right like you got to pick your lead horse Just like you know some people say like well our church is into both Like, really great show, you know, really putting on that service, but we're also into missional.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'm like, um, which is your lead horse?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Which is your lead horse though?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like, you got to decide.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And then, you know, is it discipleship, which is what Jesus called us to and promised to go with us into?

Caesar Kalinowski:

So, Life with Jesus, Empowered by Jesus, is that your lead horse?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Or is your lead horse going to be sustaining the programs and capital campaigns, et cetera, and living up to the wrong people's expectations of you?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Remember, our Father in Heaven loves us regardless and is the glorious one whose approval matters.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And guess what?

Caesar Kalinowski:

We already have it fully.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay, so which is going to be your horse pulling the cart?

Caesar Kalinowski:

In other words, we, we, we get to gather, we want to gather as a family, but is discipleship going to be the horse that pulls the cart?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And, and if you say, well, but right now I'm in this situation, and we have to make some changes to get to where you're talking to, I agree with you.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Well, then what are you going to take out of the ministry cart right now?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yep.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So that you can say, no, our lead horse is, is living with Jesus for what he calls us to make a disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And we got to start taking stuff out of the cart.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We just have to, because it's killing us.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right, man.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So that's practically speaking now, spiritually speaking, and this is really where the rubber hits the road.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Honestly, ask yourself, does the ministry activity you're doing and building right now feel like what you see Jesus doing in the gospels?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Does it have that same feel and aroma?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like, Oh man, when I read the Gospels, I just feel like that's exactly how it feels.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'm not, you know, like, let's be honest here, because I'll ask this a lot of people know that their church will be so corporate, top down, never made a disciple.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And they'll go like, yep, it's exactly like the Gospels.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'm like, I don't see a man's translation.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Are you reading here?

Caesar Kalinowski:

You know?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Does it have that same feel and aroma?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Oh, is the stress you're feeling put on you by the father or Jesus?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Or is it imposed by others, some sort of a corporate board or maybe yourself, a need to look good and achieve things, you know, what might you need to repent of and begin to trust Jesus for, meaning even your salary, maybe if you have to, like, I can't do this anymore, I've got to trust God and move on.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's what I did.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's what you had to do.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And I know it wasn't easy, man.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And your dad and your faithful dad and husband.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So it was a tough decision, but you eventually had to come to that point.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I have to begin to trust Jesus for me, for my kids, for my faith, for my ministry, instead of trying to get smarter and work harder.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yep.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And so much of so many of us, and I've had to repent of this.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I remember literally one time I'm going to go before the congregation that I pastored and was an elder and had to repent of being.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Too smart for my own good and working really, really hard.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I said, I've been leading this family out of my smarts, I'm a pretty smart guy.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And working really, really hard.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And that's, that is not what I want to model for you.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Jesus has not asked me to do this.

Caesar Kalinowski:

This has been about me.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And I don't like where it's leading.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I don't like who it's making me.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I don't know if my wife is, I know she wasn't digging it either, and the kids, where's dad, all this stuff, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

And so I had to repent of that.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So I want to call people to like, Really be honest with yourself here.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Is the stuff that's frying you and burning you out, Is, is God asking you to do that stuff or is it someone else and you're trying to measure up or look up to, or you're like, I'll suck it up because it's a job.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Cause let me just say the worst thing I think you could have is, is, well, I'm only pastoring for the paycheck.

Caesar Kalinowski:

No one wants a pastor like that.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And you like look in the mirror.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Do you want to say like, really this sucks so bad, but you know, they pay me.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Holy cow.

Caesar Kalinowski:

There's jobs out there.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like go get a different one.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I mean, there are jobs, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

I mean, holy moly.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Now, another thing I'd say, from back to a practical thing is if you were saying, I'm right there, I am not going to chuck it, but I am going to start making changes.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You got to start with your own heart.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You have to.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And they're like there again, that's soul shepherding.

Caesar Kalinowski:

org is I think it's a legit helpful.

Caesar Kalinowski:

They have a sabbatical guide that you can get on how to take and organize a sabbatical so that you can actually assess these kinds of things in your own life and heart.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Here's the scripture that's going to speak into it and how to pray and.

Caesar Kalinowski:

No, it's not just to go like, Hey, I took a sabbatical.

Caesar Kalinowski:

What'd you do?

Caesar Kalinowski:

I was off and I worked on the garage and I just dreaded going back, you know, like, no, no, no, no.

Caesar Kalinowski:

How to have a sabbatical.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So I want to put that in the show notes as well.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And then, you know, you can just dig around their site as well for other things, because some of you might be at the point where you need to go and meet with them and, you know, and have them help you and then go on your retreat or whatever, but like, please don't just.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I know so many people living right now, uh, listening right now are feeling this burnout and feeling so close to the edge.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And so many of those statistics are them, but they don't want to bail and they don't really want to give up and just, I'm going to go work for the Home Depot.

Caesar Kalinowski:

At least I'll be a little less stressed, you know, like then, then do something about it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like don't just assume it'll somehow fix itself because the system won't the system that was never what Jesus calls us to We'll never somehow fix itself.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yep, because it's run by us not him and and I know these are strong words today But please don't don't be another statistic.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Please.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Please don't get some help.

Heath Hollensbe:

Now.

Heath Hollensbe:

Let me just say from experience, man It's it's it's not worth it Like if you're if your family and your friends are going we love you and something's not right and you either got to make a change or get out like You're right, you know, it's just not

Caesar Kalinowski:

worth sticking in there.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Hey listen, if the goal of our whole lives, and we were created in the image of God, to bear His image and fill the world with what He's like, and we're fried and losing our marriages and hate our lives, then we're not fulfilling that.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Cause everybody's watching us going, Hey, that's the pastor in the neighborhood, and, uh, Yeah, don't want that life.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Screaming at the kids.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So it's just even from that like an, you know, an evangelistic ass point aspect, I mean it You don't want it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Just yeah,

Heath Hollensbe:

it's not I Thank you for your pastoral heart in the Caesar and the way we're sharing and I think it is freeing that that Jesus does not burn us out.

Heath Hollensbe:

It's, it's the demands of, of other things.

Heath Hollensbe:

And we want to get to the big three, which are the three takeaways that if, if nothing else from this episode that we want you to leave

Caesar Kalinowski:

with.

Caesar Kalinowski:

You can always get a free download of the big three as a PDF by going to everydaydisciple.

Caesar Kalinowski:

com forward slash big three.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Caesar,

Heath Hollensbe:

what are the big three for

Heath Hollensbe:

this

Caesar Kalinowski:

week?

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay, that was, I know, I felt like I was preaching almost there.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I was like really amped.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's good.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Um, praise God.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We get to do ministry and we love it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Love it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like love it.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It's fun.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah, it's absolutely fun.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I've ever had in my life.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Anyway, so first thing, big three, ministry that's ordained by God, led and empowered by the spirit of God will never lead to burnout or falling away.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Amen.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It just won't.

Caesar Kalinowski:

God will just, it's not how dad is.

Caesar Kalinowski:

If you see the church as a building or a corporate structure and a series of endless programs, you're missing the beauty of living out your true gospel identity as a dearly loved child of God and part of his forever family.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Remember the only mission that Jesus gave the church, that's us, is to be and make disciples and he promised to never leave us or.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Forsake us and his calling will never destroy our souls or our families or our lives.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah Okay, he gives

Heath Hollensbe:

the ones he loves to rest right like this is yeah, he's a kind father.

Heath Hollensbe:

Don't

Caesar Kalinowski:

miss it All right.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Number two.

Caesar Kalinowski:

We must believe that the only opinion of us and our ministry achievements that matters is God's And we already have his full love and approval regardless.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Amen.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So if you're feeling burned or you feel like, Oh man, I am stuck in a system.

Caesar Kalinowski:

That's not even, I don't think what God's calling us to.

Caesar Kalinowski:

There's no condemnation from dad, Jesus life, death and resurrection has already secured the father's full approval for you.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Now we get to live on mission with Jesus, empowered by Jesus, trusting him for the results and all of our needs and our provisions along the way.

Caesar Kalinowski:

God will never call us to something that he himself has not already provided for.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Like, please don't miss that.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

God has, will never call us to something that he is not going to provide for.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So if he's calling you to move on or change the way you do ministry or take a whole bunch of stuff out of the cart and you're like, yeah, but then, uh, this and that and this ramification or this income level.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski:

God, if he's calling you to you to it, he's calling us all to his life, we'll never not provide.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Amen.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Third, if you're secretly burned out or living in isolation due to fear or hidden sin in your life, find at least one trusted friend you can be honest with like today.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay, today, yeah, because you're just, your soul rot is, is, and you're just, we're opening up so many doors to the enemy.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Don't keep pushing through in silence thinking you'll be your own savior eventually, right?

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'm going to, I'm going to sort this, I'm going to eventually get there.

Caesar Kalinowski:

No, you won't.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It won't.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Be honest with your family about how you're feeling.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Seek to take a break or a sabbatical as soon as you can, or, or like right away, seek some professional help from those experiencing this type of help and heart restoration.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And if you've already tried all this, like you do, I've taken the sabbaticals, I've gone, I flew out to this special thing, all this, and you still feel like you're drowning, I suggest you take a break from being a professional ministry, you know, person for a season or maybe for good.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Cause you'll, you're, you're never gonna truly lead others further and to a healthier, more mature place than you are.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Yep.

Caesar Kalinowski:

So quit pretending.

Heath Hollensbe:

Okay.

Heath Hollensbe:

And I just want to offer too, and I'm sure we haven't talked about this beforehand, but I'm already, I'm already getting people on like through the Facebook group and stuff that have reached out going, Hey, I need to pick your brain on this.

Heath Hollensbe:

And I'm hurting here.

Heath Hollensbe:

How did you make the leap?

Heath Hollensbe:

Yeah, and I want to say, I think you and I are both completely available.

Heath Hollensbe:

If you want to reach out and you don't have anyone you can talk to, like, you and I are, I mean, reach out to us, either Facebook or email

Caesar Kalinowski:

us.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And literally, I mean, you know this, we, I talk to people all day about all kinds of stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I will jump on a phone call with you or a Zoom call or something, and so will Heath, and like, we're here for you.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Don't just keep slagging along and hating your life.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And

Heath Hollensbe:

yeah, and don't think you can do it alone.

Heath Hollensbe:

It happens a lot faster.

Heath Hollensbe:

I mean, that soul right, you were talking about that.

Heath Hollensbe:

That's not a slow burn.

Heath Hollensbe:

That is a, that is a flash paper.

Heath Hollensbe:

It goes

Caesar Kalinowski:

quick.

Caesar Kalinowski:

It can be.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And we find ourselves doing things that have just ruined our families, ruined our careers, ruined our whole lives.

Caesar Kalinowski:

And like, I don't want, we don't need any more of that for anybody, much less within our family here at the

Heath Hollensbe:

church.

Heath Hollensbe:

And again, we want to make ourselves available.

Heath Hollensbe:

So if you're in this position and you, and you really have no one else to reach out to, and you need a safe place to go, feel free to contact Caesar or I.

Heath Hollensbe:

Yeah.

Heath Hollensbe:

We'd love to help you out.

Heath Hollensbe:

Please do that.

Heath Hollensbe:

Next week is going to be another touchy subject because.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Where are we going here?

Caesar Kalinowski:

I know.

Heath Hollensbe:

Hot button.

Heath Hollensbe:

We're going to talk about gun violence and gun control and what our Christian response might be in light of the gospel.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski:

Well, that's it for today.

Caesar Kalinowski:

I'll talk to you soon.

Heath Hollensbe:

Thanks for joining us today.

Heath Hollensbe:

For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.

Heath Hollensbe:

com.

Heath Hollensbe:

And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.

Heath Hollensbe:

The Emotional Toll on Church Leadership | https://EverydayDisciple.com/460