Are You Believing What God Says About You?

Jo Saxton: 00:00:01

I understand that a voice as the kind of it's like the living representation.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:06

It's your identity out loud, you know, your passions, thoughts, dreams out loud and articulate it for the world around you.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:13

The example I've given them in the book has a period of time where I was bullied, where every action I had and the way I looked in, the way I dressed was criticized day after day after day.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:22

And it got more and more convenient to get a little smaller.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:25

To hide away to try and avoid, um, and avoid conflict and confrontation with the people who were bullying me, but also realizing that the bullying tapped into my deepest fears, that what they said was true.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:38

And I think what happens with us when we lose our voice is we're told our voices don't count.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:44

We don't see our voices represented in the world.

Jo Saxton: 00:00:47

You have some like devastating experience where you're numbed and you're silenced and the things that God has wired you, with the ways that you are created are muted.

Heath: 00:01:09

Welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality.

Heath: 00:01:14

Faith that naturally fits into every area of life.

Heath: 00:01:17

In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle, this is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.

Heath: 00:01:25

And now here's your host Caesar Kalinowski.

Caesar: 00:01:28

Hey, Hey, how's it going?

Caesar: 00:01:30

Good to be back with you having a good week.

Caesar: 00:01:33

Hope so.

Caesar: 00:01:34

I'll tell you what I am a little bit in love with the whole formula one thing.

Caesar: 00:01:39

I don't know if this is going to hit anybody else's radar or has, but there's that formula one racing show.

Caesar: 00:01:45

That whole series that's been on Netflix.

Caesar: 00:01:47

I fell in love with that thing and binged straight through it.

Caesar: 00:01:50

New season drops, I'm all over it.

Caesar: 00:01:52

And now, because I feel like I got such a backstory to people.

Caesar: 00:01:56

All the people, the racers and the people who are in charge of the team and the boss and all that.

Caesar: 00:02:00

Now I watch F1 the formula one racing, uh, every week, the races around the world, the grand Prixs.

Caesar: 00:02:06

And also I am, I'm crazy about that.

Caesar: 00:02:07

I've always kind of been into racing.

Caesar: 00:02:09

I raced a stock car right out of high school, and I only got to do it for one season.

Caesar: 00:02:14

What a blast.

Caesar: 00:02:15

It was, I didn't really have the gear or a family with a garage and, you know, repair shop and all, most of the guys, my buddies who raced, they had that kind of thing where their dad owned a repair shop or.

Caesar: 00:02:24

Mechanic or something like that, but it was all blast.

Caesar: 00:02:28

And I'm loving that.

Caesar: 00:02:29

I don't know about you anyway.

Caesar: 00:02:30

Not even sure why I'm talking about that, but how fun is it?

Caesar: 00:02:34

It's super fun.

Caesar: 00:02:35

Hey, have you joined us over on the Facebook group yet in, uh, you know, the Everyday Disciple group that we have.

Caesar: 00:02:42

We dropped notifications for the new episodes.

Caesar: 00:02:45

I ask questions, people ask questions.

Caesar: 00:02:48

I drop resources in there.

Caesar: 00:02:50

It's a way to stay even deeper connected with us on the show.

Caesar: 00:02:53

And it's a super easy way to get ahold of me.

Caesar: 00:02:55

Ask any questions you might have loved to hear.

Caesar: 00:02:58

All right.

Caesar: 00:02:58

Also, I just want to invite you to subscribe to the show on whatever platform you listen to.

Caesar: 00:03:03

And by all means, and I know I asked this a lot, but would you please share the Everyday Disciple Podcast real easy to do?

Caesar: 00:03:10

Let folks know what you're learning.

Caesar: 00:03:12

Share that out.

Caesar: 00:03:13

Maybe through your church newsletter your church's Facebook page, type it out.

Caesar: 00:03:17

Even if you need to in the bulletin or whatever, get the word out.

Caesar: 00:03:20

Let's let's continue to equip people in gospel fluency.

Caesar: 00:03:23

And this a lifestyle of discipleship, easy to do, just send folks to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash listen, and that'll give you all the options of all the different platforms.

Caesar: 00:03:33

Pretty easy.

Caesar: 00:03:35

I'd appreciate it.

Caesar: 00:03:35

Thanks.

Caesar: 00:03:36

So.

Caesar: 00:03:37

Now today, we're going to be talking about one of my most absolute favorite topics.

Caesar: 00:03:42

And that's our identity of course.

Caesar: 00:03:44

You probably hear us talk a lot about that here on the Everyday Disciple Podcast.

Caesar: 00:03:47

And that's because it is so important to form people in their identity, their gospel identity, and help them understand.

Caesar: 00:03:55

Who God says they are, is so key.

Caesar: 00:03:57

And there's this huge connection between many dots and movements and scripture that I hope I've made clear over a lot of different episodes, but just real quick, when you see our creation, our creation in the image of a triune, God, let us make humans in our image to be like us.

Caesar: 00:04:14

So we're connected to the father and the son and the spirit in our creation there.

Caesar: 00:04:19

And then God breeds his own breath.

Caesar: 00:04:21

That we're that same word as the spirit into the first humans and sends them out to be fruitful and multiply.

Caesar: 00:04:27

And then we see Jesus doing the same thing with his disciples.

Caesar: 00:04:31

He says, Hey, as I was sent by the father, now I send you.

Caesar: 00:04:34

And he says here, and he breathed on them, received the spirit now go and make disciples.

Caesar: 00:04:40

And then he says, how do you do that?

Caesar: 00:04:42

Baptize them, you immerse.

Caesar: 00:04:43

That's what that word means them in their true identity.

Caesar: 00:04:46

You immerse them in the name of the father and in the name of the son and in the name of the holy spirit.

Caesar: 00:04:53

Right?

Caesar: 00:04:53

And then he sends us, sends humans, his disciples out to make more disciples.

Caesar: 00:04:59

This is all so huge and understanding all of this.

Caesar: 00:05:02

And it's key to us fulfilling God's eternal purpose and the purpose of the gospel, which is to fill the world with his glory.

Caesar: 00:05:09

And he does that.

Caesar: 00:05:11

Uh, us making more and more disciples of Jesus.

Caesar: 00:05:15

So living in light of our true identity and authority and privilege is all part of our spiritual freedom, our relational peace, and being a part of God, accomplishing his eternal purpose.

Caesar: 00:05:26

Now, Heath and I had the privilege to talk with author and international speaker, JO Saxton about our identity.

Caesar: 00:05:34

And it was an amazing conversation that pierced my heart in the best way.

Caesar: 00:05:38

And with such an encouraging.

Caesar: 00:05:40

Take a listen.

Caesar: 00:05:42

We have a very hard to snag and awesome guest list today.

Caesar: 00:05:45

Yeah, I know Jo Saxton.

Caesar: 00:05:46

Oh man.

Caesar: 00:05:47

She's actually really good.

Caesar: 00:05:48

And somewhat long-term friend kind of met on the road and out speaking at conferences and just kind of blown away by her as a person, as a mom, as a leader.

Caesar: 00:05:57

I wish we talk about, about 10 things today.

Caesar: 00:05:59

killer accent.

Caesar: 00:06:01

Killer accent.

Caesar: 00:06:02

Which, you know, when you mix Nigerian with like, from London, you know, British, and also it's like crazy, but I don't want to say too much more other than, gosh, I love and respect her so much.

Caesar: 00:06:11

She knows that I'm, let's bring her on because she's gonna tell us a lot of her story as we get started.

Caesar: 00:06:16

Great,

Heath: 00:06:16

Jo, welcome to the show.

Heath: 00:06:17

Glad to be here.

Heath: 00:06:18

I was going to, I just finished your book, the dream of you, and it was absolutely incredible.

Heath: 00:06:23

It was amazing how much of that clarified some stuff that I've actually gone through my own life and.

Heath: 00:06:28

You have such an incredible story of how you came to faith and then, uh, stepped into leadership.

Heath: 00:06:32

Would you mind taking just a couple of minutes to share a bit of that story with our listeners?

Caesar: 00:06:36

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:06:36

Cause it's not Jo, it's not the average story you have immigrant parents and the intro.

Caesar: 00:06:43

We were just having a little bit of fun with, you know, you have a unique accent because it's not from one place and you've lived in a lot of anyway, so yeah, let's, uh, let's hear a little bit of your story.

Caesar: 00:06:55

You came in to faith, but also into leadership.

Caesar: 00:06:57

Cause I, I kinda knew, I know you in that phase of life, like we didn't grow up together.

Caesar: 00:07:01

but I know you.

Caesar: 00:07:02

As a leader and one of my absolute favorite speakers and like prophets to like put me like, whoa, I got to think hard and pray hard about this.

Jo Saxton: 00:07:10

Oh, thank you.

Jo Saxton: 00:07:12

Well, um, my faith journey and very much a journey I think began when I was quite small and like, my background is Nigerian and.

Jo Saxton: 00:07:21

And within my family, my grandparents and Muslims were Muslims and there were a number of faiths represented in our family.

Jo Saxton: 00:07:28

So I, wasn't kind of, I didn't get to inherit, um, a Christian faith in any, any in any

Jo Saxton: 00:07:36

measure,

Caesar: 00:07:36

You're an accidental

Jo Saxton: 00:07:37

christian.

Jo Saxton: 00:07:39

Kind of, you know what I mean?

Jo Saxton: 00:07:43

Um, and what happened?

Jo Saxton: 00:07:45

Well, I actually came to faith through, um, Uh, children's club that where these God bless them.

Jo Saxton: 00:07:51

This couple who were missionaries basically in the inner city, in a Methodist church, down the road, basically had a heart for the kids in the neighborhood and they gave their all, and they were the kind of people I say, like it Hebrews talks or when it says the world when worthy of them, you know, cause they went through a lot of tough times and.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:10

Yeah, I know I'm so grateful.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:11

And they, they were very intentional reaching out to the kids in the, in the neighborhood.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:15

And one of my friends said, you should come along to this kid's club.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:17

And I said, why?

Jo Saxton: 00:08:18

And she said, because there were snacks and there were games.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:23

That's the only reason I went to Sunday school as a kid Kool-Aid and cookie snacks.

Heath: 00:08:26

I gave my life to Jesus.

Heath: 00:08:28

Cause I got a sucker every week that I did it.

Heath: 00:08:29

And so.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:31

Well, not all consumption is bad friends, not all consumption is bad.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:35

Um, and I remember them talking to me about Jesus and me, first of all, trying to work out where he was in the room, um, because they talked about him.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:42

So it's in such a familiar way.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:44

And, um, and then, then describing Jesus.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:47

And I remember one of them said, you know, you can talk to Jesus about anything, even your teachers.

Jo Saxton: 00:08:55

I was nine and I'm like, seriously, like the hairball.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:01

And I remember, I mean, gosh, this is probably some indicator of how, of my personality.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:06

I remember going up to the youth leaders are saying, are you going to have a time when, when you kind of give a talk at the end of the evening, tell everybody about Jesus.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:17

Offer an invitation for people to come on to sign up.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:19

How do I say no?

Jo Saxton: 00:09:20

And because when you do that, I will then become a Christian.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:23

So I need you to set a date for you to do that quite soon.

Caesar: 00:09:26

Wow.

Caesar: 00:09:27

How did you even, how did you even know that was sort of the old school standard?

Jo Saxton: 00:09:31

Um, I've seen and heard similar things.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:34

I'd heard about it.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:35

Some of the other kids in a group have talked about this kind of holy moment I had, and I just thought it was time to get mine.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:41

You know, I

Caesar: 00:09:42

love that.

Caesar: 00:09:43

Let's get in on this good news.

Caesar: 00:09:45

This guy sounds amazing.

Caesar: 00:09:46

I want to know what this Jesus better.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:50

It was a whole thing and they were very gracious and they arranged one for a few weeks later.

Jo Saxton: 00:09:56

And when they said, if you want to come to faith, stand up, I just showed up and said, it's my time.

Caesar: 00:10:01

And then you said, and I've been working on some messages.

Caesar: 00:10:03

So I'm just going to go ahead and get up right now.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:07

I did bring a friend with me and she came to faith and with all that

Jo Saxton: 00:10:09

night.

Caesar: 00:10:10

Okay.

Caesar: 00:10:10

So now jump way ahead, jump way ahead.

Caesar: 00:10:12

And I mean, golly so much stuff.

Caesar: 00:10:14

I know you're deeply connected with our listeners to know, you know, uh, 3DM you're deeply connected to 3DM and that's kinda how we met.

Caesar: 00:10:22

Um, Mike, Mike Breen has been a big part of your life and a great spiritual parent.

Caesar: 00:10:26

I know.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:28

Yeah, and that was in my college years.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:30

And I think for me, all things Missional, um, just seemed like a very natural, it had a very natural resonance to me.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:38

Um, in terms of obviously my church bank, my, my journey to faith was someone invited me and, uh, and very much in the way I was discipled.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:46

That was the expectation we were going to.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:48

We assumed we were sent.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:50

Um, to be to people.

Jo Saxton: 00:10:52

And so when I,

Caesar: 00:10:53

why is that not more normal?

Caesar: 00:10:54

Holy cow.

Caesar: 00:10:55

That's another episode, but

Jo Saxton: 00:10:57

yeah, I guess with the UK as well, I think the church attendance, um, was, was not at its highest, shall we say?

Jo Saxton: 00:11:06

So that I think was part of it too.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:08

And I, my college years, I remember thinking get, I've been to Bible college, um, for a couple years before moved to university in Sheffield was looking for a church, basically walked in.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:19

And, um, and people were friendly.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:22

I mean, that, that, that was a kind of litmus test mine.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:25

And some of my college friends went there, but I was very much aware, like college is a time when the lid comes off your life in so many ways.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:32

And so the things that I'd managed to coped with ignored throughout my childhood and my late teens, when I had a little sojourn away.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:41

Um, when it was so boring as well, can I say one of the most overrated six months in my life?

Jo Saxton: 00:11:48

Um, yeah.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:50

And, um, I remember coming go to the church and just thinking, right.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:54

I just want to get rooted, but then there's a lot, I don't know.

Jo Saxton: 00:11:58

And I remember meeting Mike and Sally, um, around that time and a fish and chip shop, which is obviously a best, best thing of English.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:05

Um,

Jo Saxton: 00:12:06

, you like,

Caesar: 00:12:07

you like you, like you like mushy peas?.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:09

I do I do.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:10

I love peas.

Caesar: 00:12:12

I do too and most of so many Brits hate on them.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:15

I love it.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:15

And they're wrong Caesar.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:18

Okay.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:18

Let's

Jo Saxton: 00:12:19

just be honest.

Caesar: 00:12:19

I just settled that I feel even closer to you.

Caesar: 00:12:23

So how did you make how'd you make the jump then into leadership?

Caesar: 00:12:26

So community seemed normal, uh, outreach outreach in the sense of true outreach.

Caesar: 00:12:30

Like let's treat people like family and let's get them in there.

Caesar: 00:12:32

You know, how did you make the leap to God giving you a voice and being finding yourself in leadership.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:39

You know, I think I would, I mean, I thought a lot about this, but I think, I feel like it happened to me from when I was a kid.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:47

Like when, when I was 12, that was the first time I preached and it was at our church where I'm become a Christian and we were doing an outreach to, um, our community.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:57

And they said based on the kids, we're going to run it.

Jo Saxton: 00:12:59

So I was given the talk, um,

Caesar: 00:13:02

did you do an alter call at the end?,

Jo Saxton: 00:13:05

I think I did because at the end

Caesar: 00:13:11

I see, I see that hand

Jo Saxton: 00:13:13

anybody thats got a dog come forward.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:16

I mean, I'm, I was very welcoming and I say, and, um, and at school I was often the captain of teams.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:22

I was often given, um, like positions in the class.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:27

To kind of represent the students.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:29

And so, and I was always volunteered and I just, I never had a good reason to say, no, I wasn't, I wasn't that comfortable with it, but I was never, I never had a good reason to say no.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:37

So I was kind of used to being that person who was put in charge, um, throughout my childhood.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:42

So, jo,

Caesar: 00:13:43

I got to say, I'm picking up on a pattern here already with your story.

Caesar: 00:13:47

. Accidental salvation, accidental Christian accidental leader.

Caesar: 00:13:51

Here yougo

Jo Saxton: 00:13:52

I just got to walk it around clueless.

Jo Saxton: 00:13:54

I think.

Caesar: 00:13:55

No, no, actually what I what's the pattern is, is just say yes.

Caesar: 00:13:59

People have they miss it?

Caesar: 00:14:00

They don't, they're not saying yes to Jesus.

Caesar: 00:14:02

And like you said, that six months sort of walk away wasn't it was pretty boring.

Caesar: 00:14:05

And then you said yes to leadership because it was presented.

Caesar: 00:14:08

And I wonder how many of us, what does this tie into to the book that you just wrote?

Caesar: 00:14:12

And we're going to talk about dream of you.

Caesar: 00:14:13

Does this tie into people don't say yes to things because they don't, they don't believe this.

Caesar: 00:14:18

What God says is true of them and they don't believe the dream that God has.

Caesar: 00:14:22

Let me, let me just say this right away, Heath and I both like, love your book, the dream of you.

Caesar: 00:14:26

Yep.

Caesar: 00:14:27

Okay.

Caesar: 00:14:27

And.

Caesar: 00:14:29

It it's really addressing folks learning how to be comfortable with who God says they are, which is like our sort of well-worn topic on the show is we're always talking about identity.

Caesar: 00:14:37

We just do it because we think it precedes everything.

Caesar: 00:14:41

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:14:42

Why is it so important to you and I, I am so stoked that you're writing and talking about this, and I know you well enough to know that you have been, it's not like it's sprung up on this week or this month when the book shifts, but why is, why identity so important to you?

Jo Saxton: 00:14:56

Um, I think probably because it, throughout my faith journey, it was, it was one of those deciding impact that deciding things I had to really fight for.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:04

And that I went, when I came to faith, it was like the battle began.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:08

And it was like, what was I going to believe what God said about me?

Jo Saxton: 00:15:11

And it was so far removed from the world I was in.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:14

And, and look, I would read these things about who I was because of Christ and the transformation.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:19

And I began to encounter that level of transformation.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:22

And I noticed, again, another pattern was the more I got into that, the bolder I was, the more free I was, the more passionate I was and the greater purpose I felt.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:32

And the, any time I didn't feel those things.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:34

It, it stemmed from about understanding, my identity.

Caesar: 00:15:37

Wow.

Caesar: 00:15:37

Amen.

Caesar: 00:15:38

I tell people all the time, the more they believe their identity.

Caesar: 00:15:41

Like seriously, believe it is from Christ, the more authority and privilege they're going to live into.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:47

Absolutely.

Jo Saxton: 00:15:48

I, I genuine, I mean, we don't live beyond what we believe about ourselves anyway, but I, I think there is that, um, that terrible, that terrible thing that so many of us encounter we're told lies, lies.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:02

We're told lies.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:03

told lies by sometimes by significant figures in our lives, we're told lies by people we love.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:08

The World, the do to be, the do to be and do this, then you'll be this.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:13

yep, and, and they limit us.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:15

And some of it, sometimes even the good advice limits us, you know?

Jo Saxton: 00:16:19

And I think like,

Caesar: 00:16:21

for instance, for instance, good advice that limits us or you.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:25

Yeah.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:26

Um, I think sometimes when you're told not to rock the boat, Um, when, when, um, when passivity is nice sometimes, um, I think what, oh, you nothing could ever change.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:40

So don't, don't, don't get worked up about this.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:43

Don't get worked up about these these, injustices because well, you know, it's just the way of the world and it is the way of the world and that's true, but.

Jo Saxton: 00:16:53

Th supposing that agitation is like that fire in your bone that Jeremiah had supposing the agitation is God trying to get your attention.

Jo Saxton: 00:17:01

And on the other side of him getting your attention is something that you're called to do you.

Jo Saxton: 00:17:07

Um, someone's trying to make you feel better.

Jo Saxton: 00:17:09

And I think some, and maybe trying to comfort or trying to just not make it awkward, trying to feel socially, make you socially fit by not saying something that people don't know how to answer a lot.

Jo Saxton: 00:17:20

Um, and I think, I think it costs us, I think it costs and I think it costs the work of the kingdom.

Heath: 00:17:27

Absolutely.

Heath: 00:17:28

You know, this, uh, what it reminds me of it kind of ties in closely is, uh, one of the things that really stood out to me in the book was this whole concept of losing your voice.

Heath: 00:17:38

And yeah, like over time, like your identity just gets stolen away from you and battered out of you.

Heath: 00:17:42

Would you mind unpacking that concept a little bit for our listeners who haven't gotten a chance to read the book yet and how we lose our voice over time.

Jo Saxton: 00:17:49

Yeah, I've I've um, for me, the, the, I was fascinated when I first started looking at this and realizing that the word voice, um, comes from voc or Vox in the Latin.

Jo Saxton: 00:17:58

And it's the same root word from where you find your vocation, the word vocation, vocare.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:03

And, um, I understand that our voice as the kind of it's like the living representation.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:08

It's your, it's your identity out loud?

Jo Saxton: 00:18:11

You know, your passion, thoughts, dreams out loud and articulate it for the world around you.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:16

And I think, um, the example I've given in the book is of, uh, of a period of time where I was bullied, where every action I had and the way I looked and the way I dressed was criticized day after day after day.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:27

And it got more and more convenient to get a little smaller, to hide away, to try and avoid.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:34

And avoid conflict and confrontation with the people who were bullying me because, and, but also realizing that, that the bullying tapped into my deepest fears, that what they said was true.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:45

And I think what happens with us when we lose our voice is we're told our voices don't count.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:51

We don't see our voices represented in the world around us.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:54

Um, you have some like devastating experience where you're numbed.

Jo Saxton: 00:18:58

And you're silenced and the things that God has wired you with, where the ways that you are created, um, are muted or just eroded, eroded and hard times can cause us to lose our voice.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:09

And sometimes they have it, we lose it in our formative periods of our lives, like our formative years.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:14

But I'll give you an example.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:15

When I was being mentored by someone, once I talked about pioneering and being called to that, and they said, oh, you know what?

Jo Saxton: 00:19:21

That's just fad.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:22

Uh, pioneering is a fad.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:24

Um, don't even think about it.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:26

And I remember just feeling crushed, cause it took all the courage.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:29

I had to say it and then to hear it from someone who loved me and he was in many other respects had been really good for me.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:38

Um, I don't think they had any, any, I mean they apologized a few years later, but.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:42

Because I ignored them, but in that time it was soul crushing.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:48

soul crushing to think, I really feel this there's something in this.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:51

I'm not saying I've got it right.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:53

But there's something in this.

Jo Saxton: 00:19:54

And then to have it feel so minimized and belittled and dismissed, it was even the distance.

Jo Saxton: 00:20:00

I mean, the hand action was dismissed.

Jo Saxton: 00:20:02

Was it dismissive as well?

Caesar: 00:20:04

We're all picturing.

Caesar: 00:20:05

We're all picturing that now.

Caesar: 00:20:06

Like meh going on

Jo Saxton: 00:20:07

yes.

Jo Saxton: 00:20:10

As she swept those, the things I'd said away, my voice went with it.

Heath: 00:20:15

Gosh, that's tragic

Heath: 00:20:17

. Caesar: Today.

Heath: 00:20:18

There seems to be in the media, uh, in a good way, this, this, uh, there's a big uprising about, listen, everyone has a voice and, and people, you need to believe the good things about yourself and, and especially around being female, right.

Heath: 00:20:30

And, and being a woman and wow.

Heath: 00:20:33

About time.

Heath: 00:20:34

And yet I got to say this and here I am sitting in my white privilege seat of podcasting today.

Heath: 00:20:38

But, but, but what the difference here is, is are we finding our voice in light of who God says we are or was, it was what was supposed to be true of us and is true of us because God created us in his image and Christ is recreating us, has that all been squished out of us?

Heath: 00:20:54

And then they, I think sometimes the other side of that coin, at least the way it's coming off on TV a lot is like, so you go out and make your own identity . Yeah, you, you build, you build a, you and you show everybody and that's, that's different because now you've got gotta, now you're on a treadmill that you created and you got keep it up.

Heath: 00:21:11

Absolutely.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:11

And there are a lot of voices out there telling us what to think and be, and I think the dilemma is, oh, well I think the people have been silenced and women in particular and those on the margins, people of color have been silenced for so long, so long.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:23

I think we're seeing the cost.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:25

I mean, we're clearly seeing the cost of when our voices haven't been heard.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:29

Um, and we're seeing the devastating impact and we're seeing the grief.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:34

Out loud, you know, and the D and the devastation, and we're seeing the dark consequences of what happens when you silence and you crush and bully.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:43

And I would say that is one part of a healing journey, but it's not the full part of the healing journey.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:48

It's an important, and it's a valid part.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:51

Well, the healing journey.

Jo Saxton: 00:21:52

And, and honestly, I think, you know, when you silenced and minimized and abused and oppressed people for this long, this is what you should expect.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:01

You should expect people's voices to be loud.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:03

And, and as you said at the beginning Caesar , and to sit and listen and take it in and then ask the question, what does redemption look like?

Jo Saxton: 00:22:11

What does fully fledged, um, fully fledged and boldness.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:17

and the question I've asked in the book is who were you before anyone said who you were supposed to be and what I think we've seen and what I've encountered is people tell me throughout my life, who I'm supposed to be, because I'm a woman who I'm supposed to be because I'm black, who I'm supposed to be because I grew up in the inner city and because I'm poor and

Jo Saxton: 00:22:34

or who

Caesar: 00:22:34

you're supposed to be, cause you're suppose to because you're a christian.

Caesar: 00:22:37

Well, or

Jo Saxton: 00:22:37

who you're supposed to be because you're a Christian and X, Y you know what I mean?

Jo Saxton: 00:22:41

And the, and the list sadly goes on.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:43

And I think what we've had, and there had been times in my life where it's like, I'm not those things.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:47

I'm not the, I'm not the stereotype.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:49

I'm not, definitely not that big of a statement.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:51

I'm not that sexist comment.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:52

I'm not that all of those things.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:54

Um, but nor my reaction to those things either I'm actually who God said I am.

Jo Saxton: 00:22:59

Yup.

Jo Saxton: 00:23:00

And I think it's, I think us as church, I think we have responsibility.

Jo Saxton: 00:23:05

I am, I think, a call to help for ourselves to do that journey and to lead others in that journey as well.

Caesar: 00:23:11

That's awesome.

Caesar: 00:23:12

That's wow.

Caesar: 00:23:13

Powerful.

Caesar: 00:23:13

And I hope I, I just want to underscore one thing.

Caesar: 00:23:15

It's like, w what was your voice and who were you before people started to squish that out of you?

Caesar: 00:23:20

I didn't say it as well, but that I, I want to give people permission to hear that, hear what Jo is saying and go back and think through that.

Caesar: 00:23:28

Who were you, what were those dreams?

Caesar: 00:23:30

So, you know, the Bible says that God gives you the desires of your heart.

Caesar: 00:23:34

And I don't think that means you desire it up and God's a genie.

Caesar: 00:23:36

He'll give it to you.

Caesar: 00:23:37

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:23:38

I really like a new Tesla.

Caesar: 00:23:39

Let's go God.

Caesar: 00:23:39

You know, but I, I think God gives us the desires of our heart and, and we long for those things.

Caesar: 00:23:47

And then as he fulfills them, we, we see his grace in his glory and how awesome he is.

Caesar: 00:23:51

And this is speaking into that, um, Let's move to some practical stuff.

Caesar: 00:23:55

If we, if we can't Jo, what are some practical things that you'd give folks who are actively seeking to move towards their true identity?

Caesar: 00:24:02

Maybe go back in time in some ways, both in life, but also into, I don't know if I've ever even heard God's voice.

Caesar: 00:24:08

I use said you share some practical stuff's in the, in the book as well.

Caesar: 00:24:11

So, um, just whatever comes to mind.

Caesar: 00:24:14

Let's, let's give our listeners a few here.

Caesar: 00:24:16

Here's some things we can get started

Caesar: 00:24:18

with.

Jo Saxton: 00:24:18

Yeah, I would say, first of all, don't be too quick on the unpacking.

Jo Saxton: 00:24:22

How.

Jo Saxton: 00:24:23

Um, I do, you know what I mean?

Jo Saxton: 00:24:25

In terms of where you're right now on all the voices that the find them I would, and I spend a lot of time getting people to take a long, hard look at what were they, what they become, partly because if we, if we wizz pass that bit, we don't actually get to the freedom piece.

Jo Saxton: 00:24:41

So the lasting peace, you know what I mean?

Caesar: 00:24:45

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:24:45

Don't expect to go from darkness straight to like, bing Cleaned up light.

Caesar: 00:24:50

Got it.

Caesar: 00:24:51

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:24:51

Perfect voice now.

Jo Saxton: 00:24:53

So I'd say take, I'd say, first of all, I encourage who will take their time on that.

Jo Saxton: 00:24:56

And, and, you know, for sometimes depending on what's happened to people that might be counseling, that could be all kinds of things.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:02

Um, as they begin to unpack because things come up as you began to do, as she began to explore this stuff, when you realize the journey it's been, it can be, that can be a grieving process there.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:13

So I like to encourage people, but as they go on that journey, some of the things that.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:18

I encourage people to get in touch with.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:19

It's what things they like, you know, the amount of people I've asked, what things do you like to do?

Jo Saxton: 00:25:24

And they don't know anymore because they'd lost their way.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:26

They've been so busy working, they've gone, their clear passions and the things they enjoy.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:30

And so I asked people, what sort of things make you happy?

Jo Saxton: 00:25:32

What sort of things went you angry?

Jo Saxton: 00:25:34

If you could do anything in the world, if you could change anything.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:38

Um, and do anything and you, weren't afraid, you know, that's kind of the questions that we use to explore calling and vocation.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:44

I asked those kinds of questions and I asked them as questions because we're wanting people to flex a muscle.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:49

They've not flexed for a long time about thinking of those things and getting unearthing thing, those things.

Jo Saxton: 00:25:55

Again,

Caesar: 00:25:56

sometimes I'll ask people to try to just unleash a little something.

Caesar: 00:25:59

Is what would you be doing in six months or in a year from now?

Caesar: 00:26:02

If, if money and or time or your certain circumstances were not an issue.

Caesar: 00:26:09

Yes.

Caesar: 00:26:10

Well, I'm a parent or I were broke or, but, you know, but what if none of that was an issue?

Caesar: 00:26:15

What would you be doing perfect world?

Caesar: 00:26:16

God loves you.

Caesar: 00:26:18

You ask him, he goes, yep.

Caesar: 00:26:19

There you go.

Caesar: 00:26:19

What would you be doing in six months?

Caesar: 00:26:21

You know, that's fine.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:22

It was a huge one.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:23

I often ask that alongside fear as well, because I think fear is such a pervasive.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:29

And I think it may manifest itself in so many ways.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:32

It manifests itself in comparison and perfectionism and passivity in competing in unhealthy competition.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:39

And that, so I often ask people about what would you, what are, or what of your fears held you back from doing for six months?

Jo Saxton: 00:26:46

What is your, um, you know, and if you continue to live by this fear, what's that going to look like in six months, a year, two years time.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:53

Almost for them to realize what the end result of their fears are to come back to saying, I don't want to be like that.

Jo Saxton: 00:26:58

And then come back to this question also, if you weren't afraid, if time wasn't an issue, if money wasn't an issue, if opportunity for some of that, if opportunity and environment, wasn't an issue, what would you

Jo Saxton: 00:27:09

do?

Caesar: 00:27:10

And that, and that's good because I was just about to, I was just about to ask, like, what's it look like in a person you're working with someone or maybe what's it look like in the mirror even, but what's it look like?

Caesar: 00:27:19

What's it sound like when a person's not believing.

Caesar: 00:27:22

What God says is true and they're not living out of their identity.

Caesar: 00:27:24

What's that begin to look and sound like.

Caesar: 00:27:26

So we can start to identify that in ourselves and in others.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:30

Yeah.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:30

I mean, I.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:32

When people say, I don't know, really too quickly.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:36

I think I've often that that's often a thing for me when someone sounds passionate about something and they end it with, I don't know, I almost resigned.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:44

I kind of said what'd you mean you don't know?

Jo Saxton: 00:27:45

Cause you just sounded like you did you just sound like you did know.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:49

And then you, but you're sick.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:51

Your sign out your signature at the bottom is, I don't know.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:54

And I'm

Caesar: 00:27:55

probably not going to happen dot, dot dot.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:56

Yeah.

Jo Saxton: 00:27:57

And that, you know what I mean?

Jo Saxton: 00:27:58

It's that kind of the, the kind of self-protective dismissal of all you've just said at the end, I think, is something worth, um, landing on with you?

Jo Saxton: 00:28:06

I think, um, sometimes cynicism, what people sign off before they even begin.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:12

Um, I, I mean, I'm the kind of person who likes to get behind.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:15

I like words.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:15

So I like to get behind the words that people use and the why they say them, but okay.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:20

You know, as the Bible says, the heart beats, you know, the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:24

And so I just want to find out what, what we follow right now on that.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:29

Uh, why, uh, why?

Jo Saxton: 00:28:31

Because I think we're saying something, what are, those are some of the identity identifying things.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:37

No.

Jo Saxton: 00:28:37

I tend to listen out for look out for, I mean, obviously there's body language and stuff

Jo Saxton: 00:28:41

as well.

Caesar: 00:28:42

And as we've been, as we've been discipling for years and building community and plant churches, as you have Jo, I've found it, this, this doesn't get quote repaired or sorted, like in a weekend.

Caesar: 00:28:53

Uh, you know, starting to believe a completely different story and version and value of yourself and who God created you to be and how he now sees you and the voice that he has for you.

Caesar: 00:29:04

That boy, that's almost like that's almost in the land of too good to be true too far away, kind of stuff for people.

Caesar: 00:29:09

It takes patience.

Caesar: 00:29:10

It takes time.

Caesar: 00:29:11

It takes constantly reminding, Hey, you're a bird, you got wings.

Caesar: 00:29:15

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:29:16

You get to fly.

Caesar: 00:29:17

You really do.

Caesar: 00:29:17

I know you just walked here today, but maybe tomorrow you'll fly.

Caesar: 00:29:21

Right.

Heath: 00:29:21

So speaking of that, Jo, I'm going to ask you for 60 seconds of free counseling.

Heath: 00:29:25

As we, as we start to land the plane here, here we go.

Heath: 00:29:28

Cause like what Caesar just said.

Heath: 00:29:29

I know for me personally, really trying to see myself as God sees me.

Heath: 00:29:32

Uh, it's harder than exercise.

Heath: 00:29:36

Constantly reframing my thoughts and it's extremely difficult.

Heath: 00:29:40

Um, and the way that God sees me is almost too good to be true.

Heath: 00:29:45

It is too good to be true.

Heath: 00:29:46

And it's, it's almost unbelievable in that sense.

Heath: 00:29:48

So would you just spend 60 seconds encouraging me and maybe any of our listeners who are really having a hard time believing what's true about themselves?

Jo Saxton: 00:29:57

I would encourage you to do a couple of things.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:00

I'd say.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:00

Um, it's okay.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:02

That it's hard.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:03

Because, um, and these things took a long time to get there.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:06

And I liked Caesar's words about write the story, what you're doing as you struggle to believe as you're rewriting a very old, long story, an ancient story, and to rewrite a story takes work and it takes effort and editing.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:19

And it's okay if you, if you take two steps and then you don't want to write again, but I would encourage you to surround yourself with people who see the, you, that you.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:27

That you want to be, but you don't realize you are yet.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:29

And let them speak for you.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:31

Immerse yourself in verses of the Bible and stuff that reminds you that you're fearfully and wonderfully made Psalm 1 39 has been my go-to and I'd read it in front of the mirror.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:40

I really would.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:41

I'd commit to, if you do need the extra help to get in the word, and I would try new things, because if you're rewriting a story, at some point, that's putting pen to paper and writing the words down, you can't do that in your own head.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:53

You actually have to take a step and it's okay.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:55

That it's a baby step.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:56

Babies don't run marathons.

Jo Saxton: 00:30:57

They take single steps.

Heath: 00:30:58

Yep.

Heath: 00:30:59

That's so good, Jo.

Heath: 00:31:01

It has been an absolute joy talking to you again, your book, the dream of you is absolutely incredible.

Heath: 00:31:07

Um, and hopefully we get to have you back on the show.

Jo Saxton: 00:31:10

Fun time.

Jo Saxton: 00:31:11

That'd be awesome.

Caesar: 00:31:11

It'll take us another six years to now.

Caesar: 00:31:13

I was kidding.

Caesar: 00:31:15

Jo, you know, listen, I've been just finagled myself, a speaking slot at a conference 18 months in the working, I heard Jo was going to be at a conference.

Caesar: 00:31:23

I was working with the same people and I go, she is, I want to speak there.

Caesar: 00:31:26

They're like, oh, okay.

Caesar: 00:31:27

So they booked us in Chicago and in the frozen Tundra.

Caesar: 00:31:31

And then they booked us on opposing schedules.

Caesar: 00:31:33

We never saw each other.

Caesar: 00:31:33

So.

Jo Saxton: 00:31:35

I completely different days.

Jo Saxton: 00:31:36

I was a little upset about that.

Jo Saxton: 00:31:37

I'm not going to lie.

Heath: 00:31:38

It was far easier to schedule the queen for one of the last podcasts.

Caesar: 00:31:42

Meghan Markle is going to be on right after you.

Caesar: 00:31:45

And we're going to talk about that.

Caesar: 00:31:46

And that took us a couple of phone calls, boom no just kidding.

Caesar: 00:31:50

Now blessings on your sister.

Caesar: 00:31:52

Thanks so much for, uh, for being here.

Caesar: 00:31:54

And thanks for believing the story that God's telling about you so that we all get to a little bit more as well.

Caesar: 00:31:59

I appreciate you.

Caesar: 00:32:01

All right.

Heath: 00:32:02

Thanks.

Heath: 00:32:03

Bye bye.

Heath: 00:32:04

All right, man, we could probably do a big 33 off of this episode for so much

Caesar: 00:32:08

goodness, but we need, we were flying and yet it was so packed.

Caesar: 00:32:11

Absolutely.

Caesar: 00:32:12

Wow.

Caesar: 00:32:12

So the big three, I'm sure you know, by now, unless you're a new listener are the big three takeaways from today's topic.

Caesar: 00:32:19

These are the don't miss these points from today's talk.

Caesar: 00:32:23

And by the way, you can always get a printable PDF of this.

Caesar: 00:32:26

Week's big three.

Caesar: 00:32:27

As a free download by going to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three that's Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three.

Caesar: 00:32:37

Okay.

Caesar: 00:32:37

So here's the big three first.

Caesar: 00:32:38

We don't live beyond what we believe about ourselves.

Caesar: 00:32:44

And she said that, right.

Caesar: 00:32:45

So if we've been buried under years of lies and untrue beliefs about who God's created us uniquely to be, then I just want to, I want to remind us that, you know, he's created you to know this and to live out of some, some new things.

Caesar: 00:32:58

And at first it's going to all sound like lies.

Caesar: 00:33:01

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:33:01

Like you're gonna start hearing this and go, wow.

Caesar: 00:33:03

That can't be true.

Caesar: 00:33:04

That can't be true.

Caesar: 00:33:05

And it's going to sound unbelievable.

Caesar: 00:33:06

And it's going to sound too good to be.

Caesar: 00:33:08

Because it is.

Caesar: 00:33:09

Yeah, because it really, really is, but that's how awesome our God is and how big the gospel is.

Caesar: 00:33:13

Right.

Caesar: 00:33:13

So, um, yeah, we, we, we get to live beyond what we've been thinking.

Caesar: 00:33:19

Okay.

Caesar: 00:33:19

Second it's all right.

Caesar: 00:33:20

That it's hard to believe the new and better story that God's telling you.

Caesar: 00:33:24

Hmm, right.

Caesar: 00:33:25

It's going to be hard at first.

Caesar: 00:33:26

Sure.

Caesar: 00:33:27

Kind of just said that and, and kind of parallel to that is don't expect to have a perfect voice at first, quote, unquote, as you're beginning to live into your new identity and God's given you a new voice, don't expect to have it be perfect at first.

Caesar: 00:33:38

Like it's not going to be perfectly clear and eloquent speak what you're now hearing from God and expected to take some time to gain and to give others clarity.

Caesar: 00:33:47

It's okay.

Caesar: 00:33:47

God loves you.

Caesar: 00:33:48

And he wants to hear from you and you know what?

Caesar: 00:33:50

The rest of us need your voice.

Caesar: 00:33:52

And it's the spirit.

Caesar: 00:33:54

That'll make it clear and powerful and perfect.

Caesar: 00:33:56

And just so you know, don't, don't wait until someday you think you've got your message, your voice all perfectly clear and clarified to start.

Caesar: 00:34:03

Cause you'll never get there.

Caesar: 00:34:04

We need you.

Caesar: 00:34:05

We need your voice.

Caesar: 00:34:06

Okay.

Caesar: 00:34:06

And then third, your voice is your identity out loud joe said that and I'm like, wow, that's terrible.

Caesar: 00:34:14

Yeah, it's too late.

Caesar: 00:34:16

I got it.

Caesar: 00:34:16

Or it just, so your voice is your identity out loud.

Caesar: 00:34:20

Don't fear to try out your wings.

Caesar: 00:34:22

Okay.

Caesar: 00:34:22

And try new things to say new things to go new places.

Caesar: 00:34:25

If you believe God's calling you to a new place like physically go there, that might be part of.

Caesar: 00:34:31

Causing you to believe something new about yourself, calling you to a new, new voice.

Caesar: 00:34:35

Um, if it's a new role or a new job, try that, don't be afraid.

Caesar: 00:34:39

Don't, don't worry about it.

Caesar: 00:34:40

Go for it.

Caesar: 00:34:41

If it's to a new calling, embrace it fully, knowing that in all of these God goes with you and he's in fact he's already there.

Caesar: 00:34:48

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:34:48

God's never going to call you somewhere and then leave you and forsake you.

Caesar: 00:34:51

So even though it might seem scary, he's there and he's waiting for.

Caesar: 00:34:55

Yes, you get to go for it.

Caesar: 00:34:56

That's

Heath: 00:34:57

beautiful.

Heath: 00:34:57

man thank you for those.

Heath: 00:34:58

If you want more information on Jo Saxton, you can go to her website.

Heath: 00:35:02

It's www.josaxton.com.

Heath: 00:35:07

And she's on Twitter and Instagram at Jo Saxton.

Caesar: 00:35:10

Check out our website.

Caesar: 00:35:11

Cause you can link to her podcast too.

Caesar: 00:35:13

And you can get a copy of a new book there.

Caesar: 00:35:14

Yeah.

Caesar: 00:35:15

And you can get the goodness, every week, speaking dates.

Caesar: 00:35:17

If

Heath: 00:35:17

she's coming close to you go see her.

Heath: 00:35:19

What a

Caesar: 00:35:19

great talk, one important concept to really grasp and pass on to others.

Caesar: 00:35:25

As we make disciples of Jesus, who is the exact imprint and glory of God, and we are now his body in the world.

Caesar: 00:35:32

Now we get to go forward in our true trinitarian identity with God using all of us uniquely in different ways as he fills the world with his goal.

Caesar: 00:35:43

Man.

Caesar: 00:35:43

That's awesome.

Caesar: 00:35:44

I'm super encouraged.

Caesar: 00:35:46

I hope you are too well.

Caesar: 00:35:48

That's it for today.

Caesar: 00:35:49

Thanks again, Joe.

Caesar: 00:35:50

And thanks Heath.

Caesar: 00:35:51

I look forward to talking with you next week, as well as we continue to learn how to truly live a lifestyle of discipleship in all the normal stuff of life together.

Caesar: 00:36:00

I'll talk to you.

Heath: 00:36:02

Thanks for joining us today for more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit Everyday Disciple dot com.