7 Reasons Gossip Is Poison 3 Ways To Crush It
Gossip is everywhere — in our friendships, our workplaces, even our churches. We’ve all been on both ends of it. And most of us have drifted into it without realizing until after. It’s so normal it barely registers anymore. But it’s doing real damage to the people around us and to us.
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re going to unpack what gossip actually is — and the definition will probably surprise you. You’ll discover why it’s genuinely dangerous, how to recognize it in the moment, and three ways to crush it before it spreads. This one could change how you listen to every conversation.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- A definition of gossip that instantly changes how you hear conversations
- Seven real reasons gossip is more destructive than you’ve been told
- Three practical moves to crush gossip before it takes hold
- How sticking up for the absent person builds surprising, lasting trust
From this episode:
“Gossip is speaking to someone who is neither directly part of the problem or the solution in a situation, concerning another person who is not present. Once you get that definition in your head, it changes the way you listen to every conversation you’re in.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching and Apprenticeship in Missional Living w/ Caesar and his wife, Tina
Resources for missional living and group training – Missio Publishing
Download the ‘Ultimate Guide to Stopping Gossip’ for Free.
Get Caesar’s latest book: Bigger Gospel for FREE… Click here.
Transcript
One of the easiest ways to gain friends and be trusted and seen as someone others can trust is to play the role of advocate.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like whenever you have the chance in a conversation, take the role of advocate for the defenseless.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because they're not there, they can't defend themselves, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Offer suggestions that perhaps we don't know the whole story, or that of course, like this individual, we've probably been guilty of the same accusation before.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I've found, and I've seen others model this too, that when you stick up for the defenseless, even those who may be guilty, you sort of throw cold water on the harsh and progressive march of negative gossip, and you actually model the heart of Jesus on behalf of the entire world.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Heath Hollensbe:' Caesar Kalinowski: Cause He was, He was our advocate.
Heath Hollensbe:He came, He shouldered sin and negative weirdness, and He knew, He knew like, "Yep, you're all guilty."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And He didn't go up to people and go like, "You know what?" You know, I had a friend once say like, "Jesus didn't hang on the cross, and when He was dying, scream down at all the people, 'You know, I'm up here because of you guys.'"
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Never thought
Heath Hollensbe:of that,
Caesar Kalinowski:yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:He was our advocate.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so when we advocate for people, it's modeling the Gospel, it's modeling
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Heath Hollensbe:Hello?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hello, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's going on there today, brother?
Heath Hollensbe:Man, we are talking about gossip, and if you're human-
Caesar Kalinowski:This
Heath Hollensbe:is perfect timing because- … you feel the
Caesar Kalinowski:pains.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, this is perfect timing 'cause I'm super ticked off at you right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something I heard.
Heath Hollensbe:Did we not have talked about this a second ago?
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, you know, we've-
Caesar Kalinowski:No, I was waiting till we were recording.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let the world know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then I'm gonna ma- gonna hammer you.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, you know, if you-
Caesar Kalinowski:What you say in private, I like to, like, air in public.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's- That's what a lot of people do, actually, with gossip.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, if … What we were just talking about, like, if you're human, there's no way that you're traveling through this life without feeling the effects of people gossiping about you.
Heath Hollensbe:It's, it is so rampant, even among the Christian community, that, um, that I think sometimes we don't even call it for what it is.
Heath Hollensbe:We disguise it under some other word, so.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's super rampant, and about a year or so ago, maybe longer, I recorded just a short little four or five-minute video on the same topic.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it nearly goes as deep as we'll get to go today.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it has tens of thousands of views, this thing, like … And, and people from all over the world writing in, brokenhearted because of gossip.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I'm trying to, you know, answer them on YouTube, like, try to help them out a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so this- Uh
Caesar Kalinowski:will take it a little deeper and hopefully help.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, hopefully we can clear up some of, uh … Again, like I said, we all have pains from being gossiped about, and actually we're probably more guilty about gossiping about other people than we're willing to even admit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we're gonna talk about, like, why it's so bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I'm gonna give, like, seven reasons why it's so bad, and we'll talk about that, and then I'll give you some ways to kind of stop it, crush it.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Starting off at the very beginning, how would we define the word gossip?
Heath Hollensbe:I, I would say I've seen many things that I feel would be gossip disguised under completely different language.
Heath Hollensbe:"You know, would you pray for my sister? Because she's, you know, she's making some stupid decisions, and she's-" Yeah … "getting back into drugs. And did you know that…" Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And you're like, "No, you're just gossiping. You're not asking for-"
Caesar Kalinowski:Pray for Grace and their marriage right now.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, you know, like, "What?
Caesar Kalinowski:What
Heath Hollensbe:the hell?
Heath Hollensbe:What you talking about?" What, what, what's going on?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, did you hear?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:So how would we define, from the very onset, gossip?
Caesar Kalinowski:So this is how I was taught it, and it's, man, it has stuck to me, like, like, really helpful.
Caesar Kalinowski:The, it, that gossip is speaking to someone who is neither directly part of the problem or the solution in a situation concerning another person who's not present.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll say it again, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So gossip is speaking to someone who's neither a part of the problem or the solution, and you're talking to them about another person who's not present.
Heath Hollensbe:Sometimes we talk about- There's always an, a sin behind the sin, right?
Heath Hollensbe:The, the initial sin is not just gossip, but there's something deeper at a heart level going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, when it comes to gossip, if you were to try to navigate and mine out what the sin is that's underneath that, uh, where would you go?
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, it, it could, it could be many things.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm gonna probably talk about maybe some of the com- most common, like, what's the thing behind the thing, the sin behind the s- like, why do we gossip?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:What's going on there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, all sin comes from unbelief, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:But first off, by the way, scripture says gossip's a sin, okay?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're tearing people down.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, it's, uh, Jesus almost makes it akin to murder.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like if, you know, if you speak badly against somebody- Yeah … it's like you've already committed murder in your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, why is that?
Caesar Kalinowski:'Cause you're tearing down their identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're tearing down who they are.
Caesar Kalinowski:Their identity comes from God.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's … It's a big issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I mean, you think, "Well, I shouldn't gossip," uh, you know, it's like, no, you're actually tearing down the image of God in a person.
Heath Hollensbe:I've
Caesar Kalinowski:never thought about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus says it's like murder.
Heath Hollensbe:Compared to murder.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so it is … It's, it … And you know, I mean, it destroys.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why we're gonna go deep into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, here, here's what I think some of the things behind it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Often it's a fear of man issue.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're believing that that person that we're kinda gossiping to, okay-
Heath Hollensbe:Yep
Caesar Kalinowski:that are right in front of you, they're more glorious than God.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, somehow, and it's twisted, I feel like, you know, if I got the little bit of dirt on so-and-so-
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah
Heath Hollensbe:… Caesar Kalinowski: I'm gonna build a little alliance here with this person, and I kinda want that.
Heath Hollensbe:Like, they're real glorious to me, and if they like me or feel like I'm up on the news or whatever.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's a fear of man issue actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're believing that God's not as glorious as this person I'm gossiping to, not about.
Caesar Kalinowski:And on the other side of the coin, I think we're wanting to kinda prove to ourselves that we're somehow superior or above the person that we're gossiping about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, no one ever says that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you know, like you were saying, it's disguised, but you're like, "You know what? I'm gonna make myself feel better than that person by throwing them under the bus a little bit, you know? And calling it a prayer request or whatever." But It, it really, it can be that we, we really do, we're trying to make ourselves feel a little bit better.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, "Well, at least that ain't me," you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or we're trying to gain some form of twisted, like I said, favor or alliance with the listener.
Caesar Kalinowski:So those are subtle, and they're creepy.
Caesar Kalinowski:More importantly, though, it's, it's commanded not to do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and there again, treat others as you'd have them treat you- Sure
Caesar Kalinowski:do unto, do unto you, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:How do you like it when you're gossiped against?
Caesar Kalinowski:Worst ever.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Worst ever.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be honest, I've been guilty of gossiping.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, me too, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I don't know that, know, I don't know another person who hasn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, um, and I've also been really, really deeply hurt by it, like extremely
Heath Hollensbe:hurt.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it's, it's a bit like a wildfire, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Especially in some circles.
Heath Hollensbe:That's right.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, when it starts getting rampant, and you can't control it.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, it's not just necessarily one person talking, but if you're part of that chain of gossip, it's like the game Telephone, you know, where you eventually hear back from somebody that- How do you-
Heath Hollensbe:they heard from somebody that they- How
Caesar Kalinowski:do you get it back, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it's
Caesar Kalinowski:chasing your own tail.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've heard, I've heard an analogy where it's like, you know, go out into a, a field, and it's windy, and you, you open up a feather pillow.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then you go, "Oh, that wasn't true?" And you're like, "Go back and get those feathers back."
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's like- Good luck … impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't get them all back.
Caesar Kalinowski:They've blown all over.
Caesar Kalinowski:You don't even have no idea.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Pretty, pretty, yeah, pretty powerful.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, so there are, um, different things, seven reasons that you have said that you believe that gossip is a poison.
Heath Hollensbe:You reference it in that YouTube video that, uh, you just talked about.
Heath Hollensbe:Would you mind sharing those seven reasons that you believe gossip is so awful?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, there's probably way more than seven.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:We'll pick seven to start with.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so, um, I think first it feeds a false and really, really ugly sense of superiority in our own hearts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh.
Caesar Kalinowski:We kind of touched on that a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But maybe that's why we're doing it, but it feeds it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is why it's poison.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're gossiping about someone.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is feeding a real ugly sense of superiority in us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm. And one of the main reasons that, you know, that we do this, where we gossip or speak badly, is because we wanna somehow make ourselves feel better.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, it's, it comes back to self-love, and if you feed that self-love, it's gonna come, crop up in all kinds of other areas too, not just in how we speak about others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I already said, we kinda, we gossip, and we kinda secretly and falsely believe that we're better than that person.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we don't recognize that we've probably done, or certainly could do, the exact same things that that person's accused of or worse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the crazy thing about gossip is, like, we sit sort of in this seat of superiority when we're talking about it, even if we're trying to like, "Well, I'm trying to help somebody." It's like, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:But the truth is we've all done that thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or certainly could.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you really knew me, I've done way worse things.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So why are you calling that guy out?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, why am I calling that person out in this area?
Heath Hollensbe:We were actually part of a missional community that fell apart because of gossip.
Heath Hollensbe:It was one conversation that completely destroyed the community.
Heath Hollensbe:And I remember we were talking in episode number 539 about how to find true community and meaning in your small group, and one of the things that we had mentioned was keeping short accounts with people.
Heath Hollensbe:Um,
Caesar Kalinowski:and-
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, good
Caesar Kalinowski:episode … this- And certainly you're not gonna have a healthy small group or missional community life-
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah
Heath Hollensbe:… Caesar Kalinowski: if you're gossiping about each other and hiding and blaming-
Heath Hollensbe:No … and all that kind of thing.
Heath Hollensbe:And the sad thing is those relationships now are just destroyed.
Heath Hollensbe:There's no, right now there's no willingness- Mm
Heath Hollensbe:to get those back.
Heath Hollensbe:And so when I think about this false sense of superiority, I think, man-
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah
Caesar Kalinowski:… Heath Hollensbe: we have to keep short accounts with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have to go straight to that person rather than letting any divisiveness come
Caesar Kalinowski:up.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that leads right into, like, the second thing, okay, second of the seven list, it, that gossip sows distrust amongst others, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:In your, in your t- uh, team, say, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or a team at work or your family and friends, and like you were just saying, in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It sows distrust.
Caesar Kalinowski:When your friends or your coworkers or, like, you know, your spouse or others, they hear you tearing someone else down, even when it's painted with false sense of care, it causes others who hear that, you know, hear you talking, to wonder what you may be saying about them when they're not around.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not good.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you value, you know, open and trusting relationships, who doesn't?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, if you value those, avoid gossip and offhanded talk about others altogether.
Heath Hollensbe:That's a great point.
Caesar Kalinowski:You ever been in a room and you're hearing someone just rip somebody and you're like, "Holy cow, hope I never get on that person's bad side"?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not building trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or I'm
Heath Hollensbe:never gonna trust that person with anything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Heath Hollensbe:That's a good point.
Caesar Kalinowski:Third, um, gossiping harms your personal Christian or spiritual witness.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, if you're a Christian or someone who has strong spiritual convictions and you care about others, well, you stand to severely, you know, break and deteriorate the perception of your opinions and values in the eyes of others when you participate in gossip and backbiting.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, how can someone trust what you say is true about God when they cannot trust themselves with you?
Caesar Kalinowski:See how these kind of all fit together?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:It's all interwebbed.
Heath Hollensbe:So it
Caesar Kalinowski:sows distrust, but then, uh, next, in, in one sense you're over here gossiping, next thing you're like, "Well, let me tell you the truth, sister."
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're like, "Well, I don't know
Heath Hollensbe:if
Caesar Kalinowski:I believe you." I don't know if I can
Heath Hollensbe:believe you.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, fourth, people don't often think about this, gossiping destroys your integrity.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:In business or ministry or with friends, your integrity is more valuable than gold.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the definition of integrity from, like, the dictionary, from Webster's, is the quality of being honest and fair, the state of being complete or whole.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:So talking about another person that's not present or in a negative manner brings question upon your character as well.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Fifth, um, gossip harms or even ends relationships.
Caesar Kalinowski:You just talked about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Have you ever heard that someone was talking about you and not in a very positive light?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll bet it … And it didn't feel good, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And it didn't serve to draw you closer to that person.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or like, "You know, I heard they were, they were kind of backbiting me, and then … Yeah, I just feel closer and warmer now." No, it doesn't work that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not at all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Gossip never builds up another person or serves to strengthen a relationship.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Unilaterally, either way, it doesn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, it's, it's one way to almost certainly destroy or strain a relationship.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely, and it already takes a long time to rebuild it, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Trust takes a hit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sixth, gossip ruins other people's reputations.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:True or not, even.
Caesar Kalinowski:Doesn't even … Well, it was true.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that was gossip.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, but it was true Yeah, but we're called not to murder people, not to gossip them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let God deal with that stuff, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah Or go to them privately.
Caesar Kalinowski:There again, back to the definition, you, you're talking to people who are not a part of that problem or the solution.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, I, I thought maybe if I told them they could help.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then do it with them there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember, it's like talking about the person with the other person's not present.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the third part of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it … Gossip ruins people's reputations, and depending on your role in an organization or your age or your perceived authority, what you say about others can carry a real, can carry a lot of weight.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:So when you gossip about a person, it can have lasting and often unrepairable repercussions, and I've seen situations where gossip's, like, destroyed careers, actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And ministries and families.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like on the news, you know, someone gets accused of something, they're never, ever convicted of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:They didn't do it, but they were accused of it, and it's on the news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Done.
Caesar Kalinowski:Over.
Heath Hollensbe:Their name is done forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the same exact way in microcosm.
Heath Hollensbe:Mm.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it doesn't feel micro when you just ruined someone's career, like they're never moving up now at the company, or they're not gonna get hired for that or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's tearing them down.
Caesar Kalinowski:D- even if it's true, doesn't matter.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not the point.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, or within their family.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about what is truly at stake before you enter into a gossiping conversation about people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm. And, and while you're at it, think about how you'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot.
Heath Hollensbe:That's great.
Heath Hollensbe:Great
Caesar Kalinowski:advice.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then, and then s- the seventh one on the list, and there again, certainly not the last, but the huge one is that gossip will come back to haunt you.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:It always does.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, you know, I gave the analogy of the, you know, the pillowcase with the feathers in it, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Author Paul Meyer says that gossip's like a fired bullet, and once you hear the sound of it, you can't take it back.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And not too long ago, a friend of mine went through, like, some really tough stuff trying to reconcile a relationship with another friend over some goss- gossip and harsh words that had been spoken years ago.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And they were trying to sort that out, and the man who had said these hard things had actually been misinformed.
Caesar Kalinowski:He'd like … What, what he heard wasn't true, but he went ahead and passed the wrong information along to others, not knowing that it had actually made its way back to his friend.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was super sticky.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, like you said, this isn't just days ago.
Heath Hollensbe:This is years.
Heath Hollensbe:Like, this is a long-lasting implication.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I was just having that conversation.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, it's real.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going on all the time.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, I mean, those things are enough to stop you in your tracks, and if, as a follower of Jesus, you wanna go, "I want to have nothing to do with gossip. I wanna be a person marked with integrity."
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, and I'm trying to give, like, real tangible results here, the s- seven reasons why they're killers, you know?
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:' Caesar Kalinowski: Cause I mean, we're commanded not to, and we'd all say, "Well, I don't want to." I want, I wanna st- and me too.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Heath Hollensbe:I wanna be reminded of the real pain and suckiness of that.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, the seriousness.
Heath Hollensbe:So there, there you
Caesar Kalinowski:go.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean
Caesar Kalinowski:… Heath Hollensbe: So as followers of Jesus, we wanna try to correct this, or if we're prone to be more
Caesar Kalinowski:Like you said at the beginning, I think a lot of us enter into gossip not even thinking about it, just sharing conversations, sharing, uh, stories that we don't have the privilege to, to share with other people.
Caesar Kalinowski:How would you caution us to stop gossip?
Caesar Kalinowski:How can we r- recognize the symptoms or recognize that it's starting to show up, and how do we, how do we retreat from that and shut it down?
Caesar Kalinowski:First I'd say, um, start by determining if what is being said, or maybe what you wanna say, is gossip.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, is, you know, is this gossip?
Caesar Kalinowski:Ask yourself if you're either a part of the problem or the solution
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Back to the definition.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if the person that you're talking to fits both of these criteria, means they're, they're also both part of the problem and the solution, then y- you know, that might be a starting point.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if they're not, it's … then it's gossip.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So right away, doesn't matter if it's true, doesn't matter if you have good intentions.
Caesar Kalinowski:If the person you're talking to doesn't fit both the criterias of part of the problem or the solution, immediately that's gossip.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you're talking about another person who's not present and able to add sort of their part of the story and perspective, it's probably gossip too.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Super
Heath Hollensbe:simple.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's super simple, so- Yeah, you
Heath Hollensbe:can diagnose it
Caesar Kalinowski:easily … I'm talking to you, you're not part of the problem or solution.
Caesar Kalinowski:You just got itching ears, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, and the other person's not here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Either, either one of those is true, it's probably gossip.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:There again, doesn't matter if it's even true.
Caesar Kalinowski:So don't behind … You know, don't be hiding behind the fallacy that says, "Well, yeah, but it's not gossip if it's true." It still is.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Heath Hollensbe:" Caesar Kalinowski: Oh, but it's for their own good." No, it's not.
Heath Hollensbe:Change the subject.
Heath Hollensbe:That's
Heath Hollensbe:really
Caesar Kalinowski:wise Or, or run your filter before you even speak and go, "I'm not bringing it up." And we … You know, and I could feel it, even just talking about it, I can feel, like, you know, I s- haven't seen Heath in a while.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's like, "Hey, Heath, what's going on?" It's like, "Dude, you know s- what happened to so-and-so?"
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what I mean?
Heath Hollensbe:It's so easy to go there.
Heath Hollensbe:' Caesar Kalinowski: Cause I'm just looking for something interesting to talk about, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Heath Hollensbe:And it's like, wow, that was just so gossip right there.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, you know, here's another weird flip side of this, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:So this … I had this happen to me, and I've probably done it, but I don't do it anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've had people come to me and go like, "Hey, dude, I wanna ask your forgiveness for something." I'm like, "Well, I don't … For what?" You know, like I had no idea, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's going on?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, we're clean.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're like, "Uh, well, you know, the other day," or a whole bunch of times, I've had that a whole bunch of times, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:"I just said some really bad things about you to some people, and, you know, I'm just realizing, man, that's not true. It's not who you are. That wasn't, that wasn't even real."
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Heath Hollensbe:" Caesar Kalinowski: And so I just wanna say I'm sorry and ask you to forgive me." Now, here, here's what's weird about that.
Heath Hollensbe:I didn't know about it.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's almost like it's false humility on their part, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, "You didn't know I had said those things, and so you have nothing you can do about it, and there's no way to take them back unless we round up everybody, and I don't even know who I said it to."
Heath Hollensbe:Good
Caesar Kalinowski:luck.
Caesar Kalinowski:"But I just wanna go ahead and ask you to forgive me for it."
Caesar Kalinowski:Whoa, super creepy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:It'dd've just been better if they had never said it.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Heath Hollensbe:That's a great point.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, if you feel like, oh, I'm listening to this right now, I'm being a little convicted about people I've gossiped about.
Caesar Kalinowski:First, stop it.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you know them really closely, and you think there's a chance that it's coming back to haunt them, then you might need to go to them and s- and, and then be
Caesar Kalinowski:I would be super specific.
Caesar Kalinowski:"I … You know what? I'm so sorry I said this to so-and-so."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:" Caesar Kalinowski: And I wanna … C- could, could … I'm … I wanna, I need your forgiveness, but I wanna go to that person, and I wanna make it right-"
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah
Heath Hollensbe:"… Caesar Kalinowski: with you."
Heath Hollensbe:That's great.
Heath Hollensbe:Bring the need
Caesar Kalinowski:to him.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not saying from five years ago, 10 years ago.
Caesar Kalinowski:You gotta let that, just trust that to the Lord.
Caesar Kalinowski:Learn, repent, meaning believe the truth now that it's horrible- Sure … it's killing people, and move on.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if it's immediate, and it's key relationship stuff And there's a chance they're gonna hear about it or it's, it's hurting their character, you gotta clean that up.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:You gotta catch as many of those feathers as you can and get 'em back into the pillowcase, you know?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:That's a great point.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second, uh, way to stop gossip is stop it before it starts.
Caesar Kalinowski:If a conversation you're in starts turning toward gossip, okay, even it's like someone from someone else, remember, you don't have to participate And I, I do, I have, I, I mean, unfortunately I have to do this all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Someone starts going, I'm like, "You know what? Let's just hold up. I, I'm feeling like, a, like guilty here, like that's gossip 'cause they're not here."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:" Caesar Kalinowski: So I know, I can tell you're probably really concerned about it, that's why you're bringing it up." So, you know, like honor the person, not trying to be a dirt bag.
Heath Hollensbe:But they're gossiping, you know?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So I just shut it down, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Well, and that is a very like, I mean, that is… I've been in those situations, and maybe even you've done it with me, is just like, "Hey, bro, let's not, we don't need to talk about that right now. Like, this person's not here." And it's convicting.
Heath Hollensbe:Like, that's enough to shut me up.
Heath Hollensbe:Not shameful, but just enough to
Caesar Kalinowski:go- Well, I just need your advice or something, great, let's get them in the room.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Happy to talk about it if they're willing to talk about it with me.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:But,
Caesar Kalinowski:but right now I'm not part of the solution 'cause they've not invited it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Dig?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And that builds like your, my view of your integrity as well for s- going like, "Hey, no, we're not gonna do this." I actually have a trust with you that, hey, Steve's not gonna leave my company and talk about me with someone else because he's actually proven that he's a guy who shuts it down.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:So to avoid offending people, you know, uh, the, those that you're, you know, m- might be with and they're gossiping about someone, you can turn the focus of the conversation to yourself.
Caesar Kalinowski:'Cause you don't have to hammer someone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Turn it to yourself and say something like, "You know, I wasn't there for that, so I really can't say."
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, that's, just shuts it down 'cause you're not really commenting.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, "I wasn't involved in that conversation.
Caesar Kalinowski:I probably don't have the full picture.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'd be better if I kept my thoughts to myself," or, "Let's get so-and-so over here and talk about it."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:See how I'm, I'm turning it to me?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not hammering a person like, "Dude, you're gossiping about this guy."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that's like, I just strained the relationship.
Caesar Kalinowski:So serve them by just saying, "Hey, this is what's true of me right now, so I need to stop."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Heath Hollensbe:That's yep, helpful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Couple of cool ways there.
Proverbs 17 00:20:16
27 kinda gives us the hip on that.
Proverbs 17 00:20:18
Says, "Whoever restrains his words is wise, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, the Bible uses the word cool.
Heath Hollensbe:Do you find that, um, on a side note, we live in a generation, we were talking this morning offline of how fast we are to… It's not necessarily about accurate information, in, even in the media and f- with friendships, it's how fast can we get the know out.
Heath Hollensbe:We see it on Twitter, we see it on fa- like, we wanna be purveyors of, like, getting information out as fast as possible.
Heath Hollensbe:We'll check our sources later, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Do you think that that has a, uh- Yeah, it's a national problem right now … do you think that has a play, do you think that that kind of plays in maybe subliminally or even just logically to how we have relationship as well?
Heath Hollensbe:We're kind of more prone to wanna jump in and share information
Caesar Kalinowski:quickly?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, it's back to the, what you were asking me a while ago about the thing behind the thing.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, why do I wanna be the first with the news?
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Especially dirty news, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gonna be- Yeah … kinda cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why?
Caesar Kalinowski:'Cause I somehow I feel like either people will like me 'cause I'm in the know-
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah
Caesar Kalinowski:It makes me feel a little better by throwing the dirt.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I mean, there's episode number 504 about how to talk about politics- Yeah … without being a jerk, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you haven't heard that, go check it out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, how do you talk about politics without being a jerk?
Caesar Kalinowski:Same thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm. Like, like why, why is there so much flying around the Twitterverse, and the universe, and Facebook, and people flipping out, and they wanna be the first to go, like, "Oh, did you hear this?"
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:By the way, when you're talking about, I don't know, senator, congressman, the president, somebody on, you know, whatever, they're humans.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not there.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not part of the solution to the problem.
Caesar Kalinowski:It doesn't not make it gossip because they're on TV, by the way.
Heath Hollensbe:That's a good point, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's even shows that have, like, gossip in the title.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't wanna throw anybody's, like, favorite show under the bus, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And there's shows that are like, oh, they're all about backbiting and backstabbing.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot of reality shows are actually built on it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've actually known friends that were
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, they worked at a place that was on a reality show, and they're like, "I can't do it anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:As a believer, I can't do it because the producers come to us," and even though it's, quote-unquote, "real," it's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kinda half scripted.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're like, "Here's what I want you to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want you to go over to so-and-so and kinda lower your voice, and, like, or whisper and pretend like the camera's not really there, and say this about so-and-so, and then we're gonna show them that tape.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll be cool." Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:"We, like, people will love it." And he's like, "I'm not doing that."
Heath Hollensbe:Well, and the sad thing
Caesar Kalinowski:is that- "I work with, I gotta work with this guy after, like, six weeks of filming," or whatever, you
Heath Hollensbe:know?
Heath Hollensbe:Well, the sad thing is that we as consumers, like, put that under the guise of entertainment, and so it's, it's okay, right?
Heath Hollensbe:We tolerate it because it's entertainment.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's entertainment watching someone tear another person down and gossip about them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And listen, hey, I'm the dirtiest of sinners in that, but, but that's … It's, it feeds it, see?
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I just wanna say, you know, like, stop it before it starts.
Caesar Kalinowski:It might be you, you know, we need to de-tune some shows.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some input.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Third thing is, um, to stop gossip is, is play the role of advocate, you know- Yeah … when it's coming up.
Caesar Kalinowski:So one way is, like, stopping it, like, turning the conversation around.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I said, "Well, I wasn't there for that, so, like, you know, I really can't say. I don't wanna, you know, talk about that."
Caesar Kalinowski:But one of the easiest ways to gain friends and be trusted and seen as someone others can trust is to play the role of advocate.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, like, whenever you have the chance in a conversation, take the role of advocate for the defenseless.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because they're not there.
Caesar Kalinowski:They can't defend themselves, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Offer suggestions that perhaps we don't know the whole story, or that, of course, like this individual, we've probably been guilty of the same accusation before.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I've found, and I've seen others model this, too, that when you stick up for the defenseless, even those who may be guilty, you sort of throw cold water on the harsh and progressive march of negative gossip, and you actually model the heart of Jesus on behalf of the entire world.
Heath Hollensbe:Mm.
Heath Hollensbe:' Caesar Kalinowski: Cause he was, he was our advocate.
Heath Hollensbe:He came.
Heath Hollensbe:He shouldered sin and negative weirdness, and he knew.
Heath Hollensbe:He knew, like, "Yep, you're all guilty."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he didn't go up to people and go like, "You know what?" You know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I had a friend once say, like, Jesus didn't hang on the cross, and when he was dying, scream down at all the people, "You know, I'm up here because of you guys."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Never thought of that,
Caesar Kalinowski:yeah He was our advocate and so when we advocate for people, it's modeling the gospel, it's modeling Christ, so it's cool
Heath Hollensbe:Cool man
Caesar Kalinowski:So whenever you suspect or, you know, run into gossip Please avoid it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Crush it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:destroy it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Be the advocate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guard your heart, guard your tongue, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let me, let me ask, can I ask a lis- a, a, a question for our listeners?
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, and there again, if they wanna, like, engage with us and others around this topic, if they go to Facebook-
Heath Hollensbe:Yep
Heath Hollensbe:… Caesar Kalinowski: and they, uh, just search Everyday Disciple Podcast, we've got a group, and it's on there.
Heath Hollensbe:You can join it.
Heath Hollensbe:Just ask to join.
Heath Hollensbe:We have to approve it, but I'm not, 'cause, you know, we can't really tell who it is, so you'll get approved.
Heath Hollensbe:But go to Facebook, and, um, you can engage Heath and I both.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:We're both on there, and other listeners from the show.
Heath Hollensbe:That's neat.
Heath Hollensbe:So, uh, here's my question.
Heath Hollensbe:Um, how have you been hurt by gossip from others?
Heath Hollensbe:Now, be careful.
Heath Hollensbe:Don't gossip about, you know, the person telling me.
Heath Hollensbe:But how have you been hurt, and, and how has it changed you and your behavior when it comes to gossip?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd really love to hear your thoughts and experiences.
Caesar Kalinowski:Facebook group's good if you wanna mix it up, get some comments from other people, get some feedback, and just have a dialogue, so.
Heath Hollensbe:That's really helpful, man.
Heath Hollensbe:This has been a helpful conversation overall, and I think maybe a thing that you're really good at is also just going like, "This is not too late for God to redeem situations." If you have been guilty of gossip, hopefully what you're feeling from us is not shame and, and massive shame.
Heath Hollensbe:Like, you can go and make it right, like you said.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, if there are new situations or this has happened recently, like try to- Yeah … track this down and make it right.
Heath Hollensbe:It's not
Caesar Kalinowski:too late.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and if it's too far gone for a specific thing, but you start to guard your heart and your words, and you start to become the advocate, people are gonna see, "Hey, this person's character's changed."
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I'm growing in trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I used to not wanna say anything around them because who knows where it's gonna go.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Tell you what, every week we give, uh, like- The big three … yeah, the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me go there 'cause, uh, we're kinda running long.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm kinda long-winded today, sorry.
Heath Hollensbe:No, no problem.
Heath Hollensbe:And if you wanna get the, the free download, uh, of the big three, all you have to do is go to everydaydisciple.com/bigthree.
Heath Hollensbe:You can do it right now, or if you're driving, wait till you pull over.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:Or you can pull over right now and do it.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, whatever works best for you.
Heath Hollensbe:It's
Caesar Kalinowski:that good.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what's the big three, uh, takeaways for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, first, start by remembering and applying the definition of gossip I gave you to your life and conversations.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here it is one last time, but it'll be in the big three, so it's written down for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Gossip is speaking to someone who's neither directly part of the problem or the solution in the situation concerning another person who's not present.
Heath Hollensbe:That's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:So start there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, that's gonna filter out about 90% of the stuff for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second of the big three, if you know for sure you have gossiped about someone and it's hurt them, go to them and apologize.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ask for their forgiveness.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll begin to mend your relationships, and it'll strengthen trust, you know, as you go along, and trust will be rebuilt.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then third, like I, I said a bit ago, play the role of advocate.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm just gonna put that down as one of the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's huge.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, it, it … So many people need to be advocated for, and there's so much gossip going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Play the role of advocate, and like I said, one of the best ways to make friends and be seen as someone that can be trusted is to be the advocate.
Caesar Kalinowski:So whenever you have a chance, take the role.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, and defend the defenseless and that person who's not there in the situation.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks, Caesar, for that.
Heath Hollensbe:It's, uh, super helpful, and I'm excited to see some restorative and redemptive work come out of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Heath Hollensbe:hope
Caesar Kalinowski:so.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hopefully.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:I hope
Caesar Kalinowski:it will.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, if you want the free download with this week's Big Three takeaways, all you have to do is go to everydaydisciple.com/bigthree, and we're gonna shoot them right to your inbox.
Heath Hollensbe:And if you're enjoying this podcast, you can jump over to iTunes and leave a review, leave some comments for us.
Heath Hollensbe:That's helpful for us to know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Subscribe.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, subscribe is great.
Heath Hollensbe:That way you
Caesar Kalinowski:automatically get the feed.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, you won't miss
Heath Hollensbe:it.
Heath Hollensbe:Every Monday you'll have a new, uh, you'll wake up to a new podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:And it's also helpful for us to know that we're talking about shows and topics that are helpful to you guys as listeners.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep, give us
Caesar Kalinowski:some feedback.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everydaydisciple.com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.