Seeing God Fully Masculine, Feminine, and Beyond
We’ve learned from scripture to use male pronouns when we talk about God. He’s our Father. But what if there’s a richness to God’s nature that we’ve been missing because we’ve only been looking at half the picture?
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re exploring the feminine aspects of God’s divine nature—something that’s been right there in the Bible all along. We’ll look at how both masculinity and femininity reveal different facets of God’s character, how the Holy Spirit is presented as feminine throughout Scripture, and even how Jesus used mothering language to describe his love for people.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- How both masculinity and femininity give us a fuller sense of what God is truly like
- Why God is simultaneously above gender while embracing all of it in his nature
- How the Holy Spirit is presented as feminine in nature throughout Scripture
- How recognizing God’s feminine nature changes the way you pray, worship, and love others
From this episode:
“Ultimate respect and admiration for each other comes from loving who God is. What we believe about God is the most important thing we will ever believe about ourselves and everyone else. Respect for yourself and others is an act of worship (worth-ship) to God”
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching and Mentorship in Missional Living by Caesar and his wife Tina
Resources for missional living and group training – Missio Publishing
The Gospel In Everyday Life Workshop Register Now FREE
Transcript
I believe in fact, this might be at the heart of much of what we're experiencing in culture today connected with gender issues.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not gonna dive into the war over gender identity and gender neutrality here today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe someday we'll do a full episode on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But remember where we started, Genesis 1 27.
Caesar Kalinowski:So God created man in his own image, male and female.
Caesar Kalinowski:He created them.
Caesar Kalinowski:It does not say that God created humans in his image neutral.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And open to speculation or reinterpretation.
Caesar Kalinowski:God created him both male and female in his image.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's important.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really important.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I, but I'll say that when we see and we value and we embrace that we were all created in the image of God, in the image of a good right and perfect God who presents himself or herself, if you will, above gender, and who created and embraces and expresses both.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then we'll start to see all the myriad issues of equality between the sexes addressed rightly, and in the church, and it's in the workplace, and it's around the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you can see why at the heart of this public debate over gender and feminine equality issues, it's really a gospel issue.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Caesar is here with Heath today.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a good thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just talked about myself in the third person.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I only usually talk about myself in the third person when I use my middle name, which is Frank.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:, Caesar Kalinowski: Which no one even knows that, but now everybody knows that.
Heath Hollensbe:But my middle name's Frank.
Heath Hollensbe:And so growing up I was Frankie, like I was never Caesar
Heath Hollensbe:No way.
Caesar Kalinowski:And my family.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so it's like my nieces and nephews refer to me as Uncle Frank.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that's how, if I, if I ever usually refer to myself in the third person, I go, well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uncle Frank would like a piece of cake too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, look at that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or something like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't know why I just, there you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Has nothing to do with the topic today, but right away, I'm guessing some people are going like, feminine nature of God, what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then they're tuning out like, don't earth stop.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, just give us a couple minutes.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is really cool stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, um, I, I think it's actually pretty important given a few like gender inequality issues that we see just raging in the media today and people losing their minds over.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's, there's something, there's good news in here for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I hope people hang out.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, and speaking of people hanging out, before we get started, I just wanted to shout out to a couple people that have left to some really kind reviews on, uh, iTunes lately.
Heath Hollensbe:Caleb Brown 10 who says is a college student.
Heath Hollensbe:Um.
Heath Hollensbe:Having to get into the world of adulting.
Heath Hollensbe:This podcast is challenged and shown him in his small town country church, what it looks like to truly follow Christ.
Heath Hollensbe:So
Caesar Kalinowski:that's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love that word adulting.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You, this is just getting into adulting.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Adulting is hard.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And then a granola tuck says so many of the other podcasts seem to be nothing more than a marketing tool designed to get to the listener to buy stuff.
Heath Hollensbe:There's nothing wrong with that, but it gets old and this podcast is so different.
Heath Hollensbe:So much valuable wisdom and practice tools doled out freely.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Heath Hollensbe:Feel free
Caesar Kalinowski:to send, you know, huge donations.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, you actually, you can't because we're not, we don't have a way to receive it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because buy us lunch once or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, that's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love, I love the reviews.
Caesar Kalinowski:It helps other people understand what the podcast's about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as we've said before, it's always super encouraging for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Another way to do that and talk to us is over on the Facebook group.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:So people, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get
Heath Hollensbe:there by going to, uh, the search bar on Facebook, typing in Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:We'll approve you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guess what I just added this week down at the bottom of the show notes, there's a big, huge thing that says Join us on Facebook.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you wanna talk to Caesar Heath, boom, click that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll take you right over to that page.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:We try to be respectful, like we're, you and I are on there daily talking and, and so it's kind of cool to have the conversation, bring it, you know, people
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Bring it.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:So Caesar, uh.
Heath Hollensbe:I am prone to referring to God as a him all the time.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure, sure.
Heath Hollensbe:And we are talking about the feminine aspects of God and his nature today.
Heath Hollensbe:We typically use male pronouns to always refer to God, but maybe there's something more amazing going on here in our understanding of him.
Heath Hollensbe:So, well there it is.
Heath Hollensbe:You just did it again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Our understanding of him.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, you're right.
Heath Hollensbe:It's so,
Caesar Kalinowski:which it's hard not to do, but it's actually accurate.
Caesar Kalinowski:But there's more.
Caesar Kalinowski:So don't, I don't want anybody hear me like, oh, now Caesar and Heath are gonna start referring to Mother Earth, the mother God.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're like, no, no, but because God is big and he's triune and.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Referring to God and Father is him and Jesus is him accurate.
Caesar Kalinowski:But as we'll see, there's more.
Caesar Kalinowski:So again, stick with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, yeah, 'cause I wanna, I wanna try to unpack a bunch of this today.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And if you're prone to, um, if you're prone to bounce on stuff like this when you hear some conversation, that might get a little bit touchy outside
Caesar Kalinowski:your normal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wheelhouse of stuff that you understand.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is good.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why we're here.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're learning.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So speaking
Heath Hollensbe:of learning, episode 1 0 9 is, uh, how to live Life as an Innovative Life as a lifelong learner.
Heath Hollensbe:And so
Caesar Kalinowski:there you go.
Heath Hollensbe:If you're gonna have, if this is a hard pill for you to swallow, go listen to 1 0 9,
Caesar Kalinowski:and I'm gonna guess a little bit that like.
Caesar Kalinowski:All, all the sisters, all of our female listeners today are going, like, I'm, I'm, I'm buckled up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go.
Heath Hollensbe:Finally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And
Caesar Kalinowski:maybe not everybody else.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, so yeah, let's, let's dig into some of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right,
Heath Hollensbe:so unpack this concept for me and these other listeners.
Heath Hollensbe:Unpack the concept of the feminine aspects of God, maybe some history.
Heath Hollensbe:All right?
Heath Hollensbe:We have to go
Caesar Kalinowski:right to the very beginning of scripture, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:The beginning of the story of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Look at this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Genesis 1 27.
Caesar Kalinowski:Says what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Says.
Caesar Kalinowski:So God created man in his own image.
Caesar Kalinowski:In the image of God, he created him.
Caesar Kalinowski:Male and female, he created them.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So look at that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Male and female, he created them.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's image, his core being seems to only be reflected in humans when you have male and female both.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the two more fully reflect what God's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:So in masculinity.
Caesar Kalinowski:He greeted male and female masculinity.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get a sense of what God's like in femininity.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get a sense of what God is like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Another word for that is his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:We talked about that many times.
Caesar Kalinowski:The glory of God is what's he really like.
Caesar Kalinowski:So obviously if he says, I'm gonna create them both in my image to be like me, the world will know what I'm like.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get both sense of what God is like through both men and women through masculine and femininity, and it's together.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Not with one or the other, or not some sort of.
Caesar Kalinowski:Neutralization of either or both.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do we get the full image of what God is like?
Caesar Kalinowski:So what we're seeing actually is that right at the beginning, God is presented as above gender.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:But God created humans in his own image, both masculine and feminine, like we just said.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he is somehow apparently a perfect blend of both.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now right away that's blowing people's minds.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if, if you believed Genesis that we were created male and female in his image to be like him and to show the world what he's like, then somehow God must be this perfect coming together combination of both masculine and femininity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, so I'm not super familiar with many of the female attributes of God, like we've talked about just a second ago.
Heath Hollensbe:In fact, I've actually heard a ton of the opposite.
Heath Hollensbe:But what other patients, and what do you mean by the opposite?
Heath Hollensbe:So I've, I've heard.
Heath Hollensbe:It's always him.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, God is a strong warrior.
Heath Hollensbe:He's this, he's this, he's this.
Heath Hollensbe:Not really a lot of
Caesar Kalinowski:metaphor and a lot of understanding of of, of the male aspect.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or the masculine aspects of God.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Every picture, you know, it's a man, I mean.
Heath Hollensbe:God's a man up, A man upstairs, right?
Heath Hollensbe:The big man upstairs.
Heath Hollensbe:Like,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, by the way, side note, that is one of my least favorite things and it's usually code for, I don't know God very well or anything about him, so I always call him the big guy upstairs.
Heath Hollensbe:The big guy, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Geez.
Heath Hollensbe:So what other pictures of God's feminine nature are we given throughout scripture?
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, well, a ton
Caesar Kalinowski:actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me dive into a few of 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first off, let's say in, in Hebrew, so, okay, in the Old Testament, in the Hebrew language, there's no word for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's either masculine or feminine.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's nothing neutral.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's like another underscoring of like, huh, God chose to reveal himself then, and through Israel and through that language base.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there's no, it, there's, there's male and female.
Caesar Kalinowski:So God's always referred to as one or the other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's look at a couple of examples here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Exodus 33 19.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, this is, this is the part of scripture where Moses is asking God to show me your glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Show me what you're like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And verse 19 says, and the Lord said, I'll cause all my goodness to pass in front of you and I'll proclaim my name, the Lord in your presence.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I'll have compassion on whom I'll have compassion.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we're people as God's family, as Christians, to believe that God's a compassionate God when he is revealing himself to Moses.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is pretty rare stuff here.
Caesar Kalinowski:When he is like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass, pass you and I'm gonna reveal myself, and it's through compassion.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've gotta believe we have a compassionate God, which was at that time especially, was very unlike all the pagan gods.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, all the pagan gods were just, wow, they're ticked off.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have to appease 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's run, let's leave something there for them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's kill something, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So in him revealing himself as compassionate, that's huge.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, why is it important?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna get to that in a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's another example.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, Deuteronomy 30.
Caesar Kalinowski:Verse three, then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he'll gather you from all the nations where he scattered you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, the Hebrew word for compassion in these, these two passages and others is it's spelled like RHM.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's my bad Hebrew pronunciation.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like Raham.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, I just spit all over the mic.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But here's, here's the definition of that, that root is to love, to love deeply, to have mercy, to be compassionate, to have tender, to have affection.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, now here's, here's an additional powerful use of that same word, Genesis 49 23, because your father's God, who helps you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because of the Almighty who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above blessings of the deep that lie below blessings of the breast and the raham.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm,
Caesar Kalinowski:okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which there, it's actually used as this, it's fascinating, but it's, it's like the word womb.
Caesar Kalinowski:God is a God of compassion.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's womb like I thought.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like why?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like why are these over and over?
Caesar Kalinowski:Pictures of God revealing himself as.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, those, I mean those are pictures of what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Mom?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, a mother, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why womb?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, the womb is the ultimate place of compassion, of giving.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:When we are in the womb, you're not having to beg for anything.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not having to perform.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or even ask for nourishment or care.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all provided.
Caesar Kalinowski:This picture of the womb is the most compassionate womb, um, ham, early interpretations of that word.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can look it up in Strongs was the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wom was actually womb man.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Compassionate man.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like the more compassionate side.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that crazy?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and people could go look it up and if I'm wrong, well then school us.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I'm like, for those who are, you know, Strongs, uh, nerd.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, nerd, nerd.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, go look up H 73 58.
Caesar Kalinowski:There it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, um.
Caesar Kalinowski:So look, look at the feminine imagery here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Further on.
Caesar Kalinowski:So because of your father's God, because of the almighty, um, who blesses you with blessings?
Caesar Kalinowski:Heavens above blessings of the breast and womb.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just beautiful to me.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, here's another term we've all heard before.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, God almighty, the Hebrew is Al, should I?
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who?
Caesar Kalinowski:This is what it means.
Caesar Kalinowski:God who is sufficient, who is enough, God is sufficient to supply all one's needs.
Caesar Kalinowski:Shad the word shad.
Caesar Kalinowski:Should I?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Shad means she or breast, and then die means the day.
Caesar Kalinowski:So really should I means she Who's enough for the day?
Heath Hollensbe:Huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's God.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's el.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's el.
Caesar Kalinowski:Should I?
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Heath Hollensbe:That is really cool.
Heath Hollensbe:So in
Caesar Kalinowski:Hebrew, we see this definition as a feminine name for God.
Caesar Kalinowski:El should I, Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nurturing fertility.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yeah, there's, there's even a Hebrew tradition of that, that word being translated as the many breasted one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that crazy?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Try to flannel graph that one out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, I won't go too much deeper.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, now notice how this is further tied into fertility.
Caesar Kalinowski:Genesis 23, may God Almighty, that's El Shadi.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:Bless you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And make you fruitful and increase your numbers.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Genesis 35, 11.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am God Almighty, I am El.
Caesar Kalinowski:Should I be fruitful?
Caesar Kalinowski:Increase in number.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's interesting that this feminine nature to God keeps coming up over and over in scripture and how he refers to himself.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how he presents himself in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Geez, man, right now, this one starts to, this really to me, starts to put, ring the bell and put the, you know, wow, exclamation on it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Psalm 1 43, 10 says, teach me to do thy will for thou my God, thy spirit on the root there, the, the Hebrew is ruah, thy spirit is good, is Ruach.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, thy spirit is good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Lead me into the land of uprightness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, ruach is a feminine pronoun.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So he's saying thy spirit, that's the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a feminine, the word spirit is ruach.
Caesar Kalinowski:In Hebrew, it's used like 370 plus times.
Caesar Kalinowski:Geez.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the same word as wind and breath and mind and spirit, but that's a feminine pronoun.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like we had mentioned in a previous episode.
Heath Hollensbe:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:It might be more accurate when we refer the Holy Spirit to refer to she.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because here it says, thou art, my God, thy spirit, thy ruah is good.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a feminine pronoun.
Caesar Kalinowski:So most often when the spirit led and guided and comforted his people, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:We see that as that's the Holy Spirit who's doing that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We see that both old and New Testament.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a feminine trait.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's another word we like.
Caesar Kalinowski:We like love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Shekinah the Shekinah glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's another feminine word.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's glory hovered over the people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Shahan to dwell.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's where the root of that shahan is to dwell or to live with.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Another Jewish phrase connected to the Shekinah glorious.
Caesar Kalinowski:She who dwells within.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't that powerful?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's, and there's a lot, I mean, there is, so many just keeps going.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So just dipping into a few that I've gotten from other authors and, you know, dug out from, uh, other teachers that I've sat with other, but it gets to the point where you go like, okay, I'm looking at Genesis.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm looking at how many times God is referred to by both feminine pronouns and or clear imagery of compassion and womb likeness and you know, this, this love and compassion and you just go, oh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:No wonder we're created in his image, both male and female.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's beautiful and it's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's perfect.
Heath Hollensbe:I didn't wanna interrupt you 'cause that was so good, but the, you were, you were referencing episode 1 36, 2 episodes ago.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:On the Holy Spirit.
Heath Hollensbe:Cool.
Heath Hollensbe:Cool episode.
Heath Hollensbe:And we did touch a little bit on kind of setting Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:The cards out that we were going to Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Get to this episode.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:What do we see in the life of Jesus here in the New Testament?
Heath Hollensbe:Is there stuff there that we can mine out as well?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:exactly the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Look at, um, this really popular, I mean, common people know this verse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Matthew 2337, Jesus is talking here.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says, Jerusalem.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jerusalem, you who killed the prophets and stoned those sent to you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're not stoked here.
Caesar Kalinowski:How often I have longed or the words ached to gather your children together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like a hand gathers her chicks under her wings.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's the imagery there?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Mother mothering.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Mother
Caesar Kalinowski:hand.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, it, it's, it's like Jesus is saying, I'm like, I'm, I'm like a motherhead who's trying to get all of her chi chicks here moving in the same direction.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, but you just keep running off.
Caesar Kalinowski:You just keep running off.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, to be the community, the people that God intends, we need to continue to embrace God.
Caesar Kalinowski:In the fullness of both masculine and femininity, just like Jesus is doing that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And remember, we already said it, God's above gender and, and we need to embrace a God that's bigger than gender.
Caesar Kalinowski:So maybe it's like this, Jesus says.
Caesar Kalinowski:God is Spirit, remember?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And in trying to explain to us God's core essence, he uses all kinds of imagery.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can see me in this, in this way, uh, in a, in a father.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can see me in a son, in a family, in a mother with her children.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he's given us lots and lots of ways to understand this, this diverse, beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Masculine and fem feminine God who loves us deeply and embraces who he's created us to be.
Heath Hollensbe:So can you give us some examples of how understanding that God reveals himself through both this masculine and feminine understanding.
Heath Hollensbe:Changes how we might interpret some passages or even in how we might treat one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I, I'd love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I believe in fact that, that, that this might be at the heart of much of what we're experiencing in culture today connected with gender issues.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not gonna dive into the war over gender identity and gender neutrality here today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe someday we'll do a full episode on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But remember where we started, Genesis 1 27.
Caesar Kalinowski:So God created a man in his own image.
Caesar Kalinowski:Male and female, he created them.
Caesar Kalinowski:It does not say that God created humans in his image neutral.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And open to speculation or reinterpretation.
Caesar Kalinowski:God created 'em, both male and female in his image.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's important.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really important.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I'll say that when we see.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we value and we embrace that we were all created in the image of God, in the image of a good right and perfect God who presents himself or herself, if you will, Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Above gender and who created and embraces and expresses both.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then we'll start to see all the myriad issues of equality between the sexes addressed
Heath Hollensbe:hmm
Caesar Kalinowski:rightly, and in the church, and it's in the workplace, and it's around the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you can see why at the heart of this public debate over gender and feminine equality issues, it's really a gospel issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:God created the world and us to fill the world with his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not with our glory and many of the arguments and the, this whole rage around all of this leaves identity coming from God completely outta the conversation.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not even addressing, it's like we're just going like binary, like flesh, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not, there's no identity and it's left outta that whole conversation and that's not good.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that'll never solve the issues connected to either gender.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, uh.
Caesar Kalinowski:The way we treat each other and, and equality issues.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's, it's deeper than that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's an identity issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why we started there and I wanted to just kinda loop back and touch that.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:I think it's great.
Heath Hollensbe:I've never thought about the world being filled with our glory rather than God's glory.
Heath Hollensbe:And what happens when, you know, when we say glory and it, it's filling the world with what he's like his attributes, who he is, and it's not ours and it's not
Caesar Kalinowski:for a reinterpretation.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:If that changes everything, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep, it does.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's at the heart of that whole issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so as you begin to dive into those kind of conversations around equality or gender, remember what's at the root and the base of it that we've got a God who presents himself.
Caesar Kalinowski:Has both masculine and femin feminine.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he created us in his image to be like him, both male and female.
Caesar Kalinowski:But there it's, there's the strongest equality statement I've ever heard in my life.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Whew, man.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, so, uh, it's time to get to the big three.
Heath Hollensbe:And the big three is what we give away every week.
Heath Hollensbe:It's a free download with takeaways of typically head, heart, hands.
Heath Hollensbe:Action items we want you to walk away with from this episode.
Heath Hollensbe:You can get those by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, that's everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what would you say the big three are for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:First, I'd say God created humans, both male and female, so that together we would best reflect his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't forget that, like what he's truly like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Embrace the things that are true and beautiful in how God has wonderfully made you.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Women who are listening, you're amazing, and you're an amazing daily reflection of who God is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we need you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:We need that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so important.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second, ultimate respect and admiration for each other comes from loving who God is.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've said it before on the show, but what we believe about God is the most important thing that we'll ever believe about ourselves.
Caesar Kalinowski:And everyone else, respect for yourself and others is an act of worship or worth ship to God, actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because we're creating his image.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Otherwise we say, nah, he didn't do it well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or he should have made everybody like me, male or a female or what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's not at the heart of worship.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the third, as you read scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that you've got some of this in your head, in your heart, if you haven't turned it off, um, as you read scripture and as you pray and as you think about God, start to notice how God consistently displays both feminine and masculine virtues as a part of his nature.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's not the angry father of the Old Testament while his son, Jesus is the nice guy in the New Testament, and the Spirit is his sidekick.
Caesar Kalinowski:God reveals the magnitude of his being, triune God and his worth as both male and female.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start noticing that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's gonna start changing your heart toward how he's made everybody.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks man.
Heath Hollensbe:Time is up.
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