Rethinking Discipleship: 10 False Beliefs in the Church
If the Church keeps doing what it has been for decades in connection to disciple-making, we will continue to see a decline in Christianity in our time. There is no better time than today to start changing our minds, changing the church, and changing the world!
This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’ll give you 10 key false beliefs and misconceptions about discipleship that we all need to get to work changing in the church today.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- How the Church has gotten so far away from the discipleship Jesus practiced.
- Causes of the present “discipleship crisis” we’re experiencing in the church today.
- How preaching a “small” and often false gospel has led to where we are at.
- 10 Key areas of false belief that we need to start changing…now!
From this episode:
“When we began to believe and preach a small gospel that was man-centered and focused on our afterlife in heaven, while we attended church and tried not to sin here on Earth, we lost the one true mission of the church: make disciples of Jesus.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.
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Transcript
If the church keeps doing what it has been doing for decades, in connection to disciple making, we will continue to see a decline in Christianity in our time.
Caesar Kalinowski:The stats state that too, I've seen reports.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because when we began to believe a small gospel that was man centered and focused on our afterlife in heaven, while we just kept attending church, trying not to sin here on earth, we lost the one true mission of the church, make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, there's no better time than today to start changing our minds, Getting some equipping, changing the church, and starting to change the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:In light of what Jesus commanded us to do, and promised us he would do with us,
Heath Hollensbe:right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:He didn't even tell us to go to church every Sunday, or to read a Bible every week, or to, like,
Caesar Kalinowski:Go to church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Those words never came out of Jesus mouth.
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this isn't, that's not a slam.
Caesar Kalinowski:Please, go be with the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your building's not a church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, make disciples.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, how you doing today?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm feeling more rested than I have in a really long time and that's because I think I've been sharing with you I've been getting some much needed vacation and sunshine . So I'm feeling pretty good.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope you're doing pretty good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, I'm also guessing you're looking toward your next ministry year, depending on when you're hearing this.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're probably wondering what will be different or how you'll start to move the needle when it comes to your discipleship systems and reproduction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Am I right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you'd say to me, Well, the problem is my people, they don't have time in their schedules for discipleship and outreach, or you're feeling tired and frustrated with trying to get your people to do more or what they should be doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'd love to help you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you're interested in learning a full framework for discipleship and mission, check us out.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you want to grow in your gospel fluency, all that stuff and help all your people do that, be it starting with your family or your small group or your whole entire church, love to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's set up a short zoom call, get to know you a little better, can answer any questions, tell you all about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just head on over to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we'll talk a little bit more about the coaching today on the podcast, but we'd love to help you out if you're interested.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll bet you are, or you wouldn't be listening to the podcast right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:So today we're gonna look at a bunch of false beliefs and misconceptions, bad practices and faulty church tradition connected to discipleship and really the way that the church in the West over the past 50, 60 or more years has understood it and how all that has shaped our lack of discipleship or the present discipleship crisis that we're experiencing in much of the church today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or at least I keep hearing it called that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we might poke a couple bears along the way today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some of those things that we tend to hold so sacred because that's how we've always done it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we're going to do it anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a lot of talk about the need for discipleship these days.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm glad for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And some much needed renewed focus on micro groups and such.
Caesar Kalinowski:Too much of that is unfortunately just, I think, refurbished small groups.
Caesar Kalinowski:When I.
Caesar Kalinowski:I sit in on the webinars and I talk to people about what they're doing, they're all excited, and it's really just still pretty inward, self focus, and not the level of true change and momentum toward making disciples who make disciples in everyday life that's really needed.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, what I want to talk about today is changing your mind about discipleship, or helping change other people's minds, like your elders or staff, who knows.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think there's some serious key issues that need addressing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And until we believe differently, we won't really start to make the changes that we need to make.
Caesar Kalinowski:Take a listen as Heath and I get into 10 misconceptions that we think need to be addressed.
Heath Hollensbe:We were talking ahead of time, and you've kind of broken this down into like a list of things that we really need as leaders and even just as Christians to change our mind and our practice about when it comes to discipleship.
Heath Hollensbe:So maybe we can get into that with your
Caesar Kalinowski:first thought.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, great.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's a bunch of things on the list that we need to change our minds about concerning discipleship and some of which we've probably touched on before, but I've been running into these same challenges a lot over the years and a lot recently.
Caesar Kalinowski:like it's not getting that much better.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I wanted to talk through a few and they're not in a perfect order or based on importance like hierarchy or whatever perfectly.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, I tried to kind of put them in some logical order, but, but they're all, I think pretty important.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's the first one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:There are not, and this is something we got to change our mind about.
Caesar Kalinowski:There are not two different classes of Christian, meaning there are believers and then there's disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:There should be no difference in what it means to be a believer, or a disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's like we, we got to believe that see true believers or followers of Jesus will seek to increasingly live his life for his glory and for the glory of the Father, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:So to say you can be a Christian or like he's a believer, but he's not a disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's false.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just don't see that in scripture, but we want to, we want to kind of say, well, but that's just the reality of it, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's, that comes from a small little false gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, if we think the gospel is say a prayer, get out of heaven.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sin management until Jesus gets back or we die and go to heaven.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well then guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Then people could say, well, that that's a Christian because he said the prayer, but yeah, no, they don't really follow Jesus to try to live like him or make other disciples, that'd be like a fish saying, you know, I choose to believe I'm a fish, like I've, I've invited fish into my heart and I want to benefit from all that it is being a fish, but I never go into the water and I just, that I leave that to other people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's just, I mean, that's not the best analogy, but that's goofy.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've got to believe that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we've got to start looking out across our communities, across our churches and going, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:If they confess Christ, then they are disciples and they, they get to like, you know, they get to make
Heath Hollensbe:disciples.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And even Jesus, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like if you claim to be a follower of Jesus, he said to go out and make disciples.
Heath Hollensbe:That wasn't an optional thing.
Heath Hollensbe:have to be a disciple.
Heath Hollensbe:You
Caesar Kalinowski:say, well, what about all the rest of the crowds?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, well, he finned them constantly because when he called them to lay down their whole life, very few followed.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he even said to his disciples, Hey, listen, the road is super narrow and most will not live it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they'll go back to religion.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's an easy thing to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is.
Caesar Kalinowski:So anyway, here's the next thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think we got to change our mind about, and it kind of follows this last one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship flows out of our God breathed identity, not out of religious obligation and activity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like until we start thinking of it, it's like, well, no, like you're supposed to, you're supposed to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so like, all right, I got to get through these classes or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, no, we are a family because God's art.
Caesar Kalinowski:Common Father.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're missionaries because we have a missionary God who sent a son on a mission who then Challenged us and commanded us to go out and make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're servants like Jesus was.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what it means to be a Christian That's what it means to be a disciple We're a family of missionary servants now sent as Jesus disciples to make more disciples of Jesus Yeah, that is who we are and I've said that phrase a zillion times before on the show, but we've got to change our mind about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship flows out of identity, not out of religious obligation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful
Heath Hollensbe:because when it flows out of, uh, obligation, we're too busy.
Heath Hollensbe:Like it's not, you know, like when you have to do something, it's like, good luck.
Heath Hollensbe:That leads right back
Caesar Kalinowski:to the last one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you know, I'm a Christian, but I don't really have a lot of time for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I mean, you know, probably when I retire or something, who knows, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:No identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:It changes everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, third one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not a set of classes and it takes time like we got to change your mind about that And I you know, I know a lot of people right now are going.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, man, you're right it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's not a set of classes But most churches are structured to have like a set
Heath Hollensbe:of class if they even do if
Caesar Kalinowski:they even do Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Even if they do.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, discipleships, a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and by the way, it reminds me, um, we did a two parter, which we don't do that often, but we, we did a two part episode creating the right discipleship environment.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's really, do you remember that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so go check out both parts one and two of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's called creating the right discipleship environment.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you just want to Google it, just put that in and a part one and part two are in there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it really goes to like, what did Jesus lifestyle look like?
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and that, uh, that's why he was able to make disciples that went on to make disciples and change the whole world.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're still here talking about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we got to make that shift.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is a lifestyle, not a set of classes, which means it's going to take time.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Sorry.
Heath Hollensbe:I remember being growing up in the church and hearing like, well, how else are you going to be discipled if you're not here on Wednesday night?
Heath Hollensbe:I'm like, well, if it's just happening on Wednesday nights, I'm probably not discipling for Sundays.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:It's,
Caesar Kalinowski:it's so much more than that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here's number four.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, they, they, not a bad order.
Caesar Kalinowski:These are kind of leading into each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, you've got to change your mind about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship does not happen effectively from just hearing sermons.
Heath Hollensbe:What?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's just one more sermon and we would be the most like mature body of people in our whole city to be changed now.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't want to say that sermons have nothing to do with our discipling.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because if the gospel is being proclaimed and it's helping us move from unbelief to belief about things, that's a part of it, but it won't happen just through sermons, and even the best preachers I think would tell you that, and I've known some really famous, and I still do, really smokin preachers, but they would say, Yeah, that's not really discipleship, you know, I mean, it's a part of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:God uses that.
Caesar Kalinowski:If certainly he uses that and I love preaching, but discipleship does not effectively happen just from hearing sermons.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if that was the case, if it was now, there's this thing called the internet and there's a zillion great sermons on it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So problem solved, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Problem solved, but it's not, and we're going the wrong direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep, you're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, number five, and I think I got 10.
Caesar Kalinowski:I got 10.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, here's number five.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is not like a one on one activity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, some people are like, well, you're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I gotta get back to it I guess it's one on one.
Caesar Kalinowski:I gotta find somebody.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, like let me tell you Discipleship doesn't happen one on one to maturity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Aspects of it, just like parenting, you might say, well, you know, like, do you do everything?
Caesar Kalinowski:Always the five of you, Tina and the three kids?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, not always.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes I'm just with my son.
Caesar Kalinowski:And well, do you ever talk about the gospel and try to disciple in the gospel's heart?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll see there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not saying it can't, but it won't happen to maturity.
Caesar Kalinowski:It has to be in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:It takes the body of Christ to make a mature disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's why.
Caesar Kalinowski:And maybe I've said this before, but there again, this is one of those changes of mind is discipleship is not one to one.
Caesar Kalinowski:So don't say, well, I'm going to get our churches going after discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to start this whole new one on one, you know, discipleship program.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, it won't go very far because here's the thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one person's Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if, if let's say you're just coming to faith and you and I are pals and so you and I hang out a lot for the next two or three years.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're going through all kinds of books and everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who are you most going to resemble spiritually in the next three years?
Caesar Kalinowski:Probably you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Probably me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And though that might help in a sense, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like you're learning some stuff and you're moving from, I'm not Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know me well enough to know like, God's still working on you, bro.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It takes all the different body parts coming to bear all the different, you know, gifts and experiences and maturity levels and all the perspective and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here's the other thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:It takes the gospel in community together out on mission, out of our comfort zone to really.
Caesar Kalinowski:become mature.
Caesar Kalinowski:Without the gospel, we're not going to become mature disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship doesn't happen, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's an easy one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Without community, we're one on one.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just talked about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And without living out on mission of making more disciples, well, then we don't, like, what are we gospeling?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, it's easy to say, like, man, look at this guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's so holy.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's just sitting there in silence.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's coffee in the back, donuts.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's like taking notes, like, like on fire, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it really takes living out on mission together.
Caesar Kalinowski:in a community to move to maturity.
Caesar Kalinowski:So until we change our mind about that one, in a lot of places, that's, that's like their highest thing is like, everybody win one, you know, it's like, uh, sorta no now where does one to one discipleship have its, uh, I think value in community as you identify people of peace in your life, those people who are leaning into relationship, you put an arm around them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get them under wing to make sure they're connected to community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't let them drift away, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, sure, you're going to have times with them alone, but your best thing you can do for them is get them connected to the body, connected to a community that's gospel centered.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's
Heath Hollensbe:something I'm really passionate about, too, because if you look at the way most of the Eastern world, the Eastern church does community, The West is really huge on this, like, my personal walk, this is between me and God.
Heath Hollensbe:And you're like, it's just not the way that it was ever practiced originally.
Heath Hollensbe:Go into hiding, study the book.
Heath Hollensbe:No, it's always done in community.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, and it was, that's how Jesus learned the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how Paul learned the word, you know, as humans, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:He was the word, but still as a man, Jesus was taught, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:As a boy growing up and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Temple, all, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, okay, number six, uh, another one we have to change our mind about discipleships, not a passing on of doctrine in knowledge about the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:So all the deep Bible studies in the world don't necessarily equal discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because we all know that we've said we've sat in lots of Bible studies and No one's living it.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one's out discipling anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one's serving anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not living out of their identity Because you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not Bible literacy that we should be going after.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's it again It's not Bible literacy That we should be going after knowing lots and lots and lots of Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the ability to speak and live and proclaim the good news in every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause remember Discipleships that process of moving from unbelief to belief in every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so just Bible literacy and knowledge alone, that's not discipleship.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:But true discipleship, you're gonna learn and live out all kinds of scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, you're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we gotta make that shift.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because still so many people are like, Oh, we just got to get more Bible in people.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the problem.
Caesar Kalinowski:The church I came from, yeah, that was the same way.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it was like, and I'm not saying don't teach the Bible, please.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't anybody hear that?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not minimizing even, I'm just saying that's not Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not discipleship alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Otherwise you just see like, what did Jesus do for three, three plus years with his disciples, they just sat.
Caesar Kalinowski:and read the scrolls, baby.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it was life on life, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, go back to those two episodes on creating the right discipleship environment.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it gives a whole bunch of the discipleship environment of Jesus and what that really, really looked like.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Super, super important.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's keep moving.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is good.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number seven, discipleship is living your life as if Jesus lived your life, not.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get to live your best life now and fit in a little religious activity or attendance when it fits.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't think too many people would disagree with that, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like, oh, I thought these were things we have to change our mind about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we do.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know why we need to change our mind?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because we put up with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that kind of goes back to an earlier one where it's like, well, but there's two kinds of, you know, Christians.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's those who've said the prayer and they kind of just hang out and praise God they're saved.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then there's disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:The serious ones, you know, it's the 80 20 rule or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, and so we, we get to expect by the power of the Holy Spirit that, that we will increasingly live our lives as if Jesus was living it.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a great quote out there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I couldn't find it today, but, but, um, there's a great quote about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's, it's not just assuming, well, and, you know, they said the prayer and, uh, and they're, you know, they're out building that American dream and living their life.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, you know, they kind of show up that the average now is 1.
Caesar Kalinowski:7 times a month.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, uh, you know, when it fits, you know, but yeah, they're not really involved in community that much, but you know, yeah, that's just kind of how it is these days.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is living your life as if Jesus lived your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guess what he was focused on.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't like building his business and getting the best house, didn't own one, didn't have a business.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it was.
Caesar Kalinowski:His father's glory and helping people understand and live in the kingdom and then pass it on like like like make disciples and teach Me everything I've taught you live them in the way I did right help them obey all this stuff and live this out That's life in the kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's where they're gonna have their best life now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah Like, let's believe that Jesus lived the best possible life of any human ever did.
Caesar Kalinowski:And let's, let's expect that's what God's doing in their life.
Caesar Kalinowski:And let's not settle for them just sort of living their best life now and fitting it in a little, and no, we got to change our mind about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's for all people.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, man, let's keep moving.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot of these.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number eight.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is the only mission Jesus gave the church, period.
Caesar Kalinowski:We got to change your mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Heath Hollensbe:You mean it's not the, uh, the dream plan and the, and the, the massive budgets and the everything else?
Heath Hollensbe:New sound systems, lighting.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Better children's program, better bus ministry.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:The new wing.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, a lot of people are going to like, I don't need to change my mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:I believe that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship's the only mission Jesus gave the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well then, does your budget reflect that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Does your calendar, does your staff's time reflect out in the lives of tons and tons of people making disciples?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:It doesn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's come on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Very few.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not saying nobody.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I said, I don't mean to be poking people in the chest, but right.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, discipleship's the only mission Jesus gave the church because it's always been a part of God's eternal purpose to fill the world with His glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is what he's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's, what's exactly, and who's exactly the glory of the father?
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you've seen me, you've seen the father.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus is the glory of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if the, if the eternal purpose is to fill the world with God's glory, in other words, Jesus, and so disciples of Jesus living his life with his spirit, that's how the world gets filled, gets filled with God's glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's why, duh, no kidding, the discipleship would be the only mission Jesus gave the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've got to change our minds about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we got to quit giving it sort of a nod and like a programmatic side of it or, or something, but, but really, because we got bills to pay, it's about getting enough people into this building and, you know, eking out the 3 percent of them that'll tithe and so we can pay the bills.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, we, we, There's great implication here.
Caesar Kalinowski:There really, really is.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if we just put that up, just put that up on the wall, you know, um, challenging my brothers and sisters who are leading others and working for churches or just even leading community, discipleship is the only mission Jesus gave the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you don't need a sexy slogan.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just put that, yeah, just, and like, and like, look at your calendar and go like, okay, this is the only mission we got.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that leads perfectly into this next one, number nine, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship's not the job of one person or one department in your church.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, it's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:You don't just pay your pastor to do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is all hands on deck.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you know, or, or the person who's like, you know, the, uh, director of discipleship ministries.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, and I know a lot of people you're going, that's my job, you know, or I just hired somebody like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, good, good on you because you're trying to move the right direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if pastors and elders and all of your staff, et cetera, are not living this as a lifestyle and priority themselves, well, this is never going to change.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can't say, well, we're all busy running the program over here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this one guy is going to help other people go out and make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, no, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:The only mission of the church, we just talked about it, is to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so discipleship can't just be one.
Caesar Kalinowski:person's job or one department.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, that's just goofy.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's stupid.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've used the analogy before.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you imagine like, uh, you own a Honda car dealership and, uh, what's the whole mission of the Honda car dealership, sell Hondas, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Take care of Hondas, repair them, you know, but sell and sell Hondas.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, yeah, well, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, there's a guy whose job that is, but the rest of us, it's something else.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, what are you doing?
Caesar Kalinowski:Eh, well, you know, like we work on the lighting and like making sure the, you know, the coffee's made and the chairs are set up right and lighting's just right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we move the cars around a lot and we talk about how cool it is to drive.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, every week I talk about how awesome driving Hondas is.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, but you selling any?
Caesar Kalinowski:Nah, nah, that's a, we hired a guy, sales manager, but he doesn't like, but you know what, sales manager doesn't drive a car and he doesn't like, he doesn't like Honda's particularly like what?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, but he says there's a guy that does and it works here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, like we got to change our mind about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is the only mission, period.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's not one person's job.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so good.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here's number 10.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maturity in Christ will only come from disciples making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like if you want to be a mature Christian.
Caesar Kalinowski:You got to get into the game.
Caesar Kalinowski:You got to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I just share that from experience because I spent a lot of years studying and listening to sermons and doing all the classes and, and, you know, signing up for, you know, all the programming and really all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't until we really got into community.
Caesar Kalinowski:and started living this life and making, and I'm talking even as a pastor that like discipling each other and the, the life on life and the, the sanding down of my fear and my preference and my selfishness and all that, like you, you, there's no way to mature like living in a gospel centered community on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's just not.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you want to be mature, make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you want to have a church that's mature, disciple people, and mature disciples, make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So don't say, well, our church is pretty mature, or that's, there's, there's couples that are super mature.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know how I'll know if they're mature?
Caesar Kalinowski:They're making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't, don't tell me you're a mature disciple, but I don't make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:You couldn't be.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski:You,
Heath Hollensbe:you know, just.
Heath Hollensbe:You're neglecting the very thing Jesus told you to do.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, but it does seem like people and pastors and church leaders will really need to wrestle with the implications of changing their beliefs and connection to, to each one of these, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, because in everybody's context, how they specifically work out these 10 things.
Caesar Kalinowski:If they change their mind and I'm there's like you said, there's great implication.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's gonna be important for sure And it's gonna be very easy to hear this episode be slightly offended nod for most of it feel like well We're tackling a couple of those, you know and not make a whole lot of change though You know, you know, or we're gonna, you know what, I'm going to up my promotions on Sunday for our 101, 201, 301, and 401 Sunday school classes, you know, going to get it done, you know, but like I said earlier, if the pastors, elders, and staff are not living this as a lifestyle and a priority themselves, this is never going to change.
Caesar Kalinowski:I recently saw a set of statistics that blew my mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, um, it was crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, the, the, Um, this organization, um, interviewed and polled a whole bunch of, uh, leaders, church leaders and pastors, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so here's the statistics.
Caesar Kalinowski:Churches who identified training people to disciple others as the most significant area of breakthrough they had in the previous year, 20 percent of churches polled said that.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're like, what the heck are you other 80 percent doing?
Caesar Kalinowski:I know, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I know.
Caesar Kalinowski:8 out of 10.
Caesar Kalinowski:But the 20 said, yeah, the most significant breakthrough we had was in, in actually training, equipping people to disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:48 percent of church leaders who identified training people to disciple others as the biggest growth opportunity for their church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So half of leaders said, yeah, our biggest growth, 48 percent said our biggest growth opportunity is discipling, training people to disciple, you know, and second place wasn't even close, according to the statistician.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then church leaders who believe that receiving training themselves.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is the most important next step for taking their discipleship process to the next level.
Caesar Kalinowski:51%.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, see, that doesn't, that one doesn't surprise me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, it surprises me that 51% of pastors say, Hey, my biggest leap of growth and taking my church and discipleship to the next level is gonna be me receiving training.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know why that doesn't surprise me too much is that most, most people who are pastors were never discipled.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's true.
Caesar Kalinowski:They went through seminary, had knowledge.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And all.
Caesar Kalinowski:And most people will tell you've been through seminary.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm one of them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, I didn't learn a whole lot about disciple making, you know, it was more how to run a church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe how to preach or whatever, be a Sunday school or worship leader or youth guy or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:And um, and, and, and I, and I love that because that's, that's more than half that say it's a priority for me to receive training myself.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't, I don't, I don't want to shame anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:It, our church didn't exist when most of us here in this today, we weren't raised in churches, even if you're pastoring, where you were discipled, where the gospel touched down in every area of life and how to speak it and live it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it was a lifestyle, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And people saw your life and how was I trained?
Caesar Kalinowski:How was I discipled?
Caesar Kalinowski:Man, I was with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:I saw their parenting.
Caesar Kalinowski:I saw their marriages.
Caesar Kalinowski:I saw them fighting, forgiving gospel in each other's hearts.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how I learned.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I did some You know, great, but no, most didn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, you know, that's why, that's why we've given so much of our time in life to coaching people.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, Tina and I, it's the best thing we do, you know, okay, I love the podcast more now.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, I love the coaching we get to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I know that the folks we coach listen to the podcast as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love you guys.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the greatest privilege we have is to help you disciple, help disciple you, but in ways that are reproducible.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, and I'm, and we're watching you make disciples to make disciples and change your churches, change your neighborhoods little by little.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's happening.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just, I have to say, if there's any interest at all in being part of that 51 percent of leaders, church leaders who feel like that receiving training themselves is their most important next step, please check out the coaching that we offer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just in a little while here, we're going to be, you know, starting up some new cohorts.
Caesar Kalinowski:And even if you're hearing this, like, well, I don't know when this was recorded.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're always coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:All you have to do is go over to everyday disciple dot com forward slash coaching and that'll take you to a page.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you'll fill out a little thing to see if it's a good fit and if we want to talk . It's not good for everybody because we're serious and coaching requires.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some effort.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, there's some action items.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, anyway, if you're interested at all, everyday disciple dot com forward slash coaching . I would love to have you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, we don't have tons of spots because we can only coach so many people.
Heath Hollensbe:And the way you guys coach is, it's not like, hey, see you next week, don't contact us.
Heath Hollensbe:No, it's high touch.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, you're, I mean, you see
Caesar Kalinowski:my phone blows up all day with Voxer messages.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's my favorite part of the day.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's going on?
Caesar Kalinowski:These are like our family.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, so like, I want you to be a part of the family.
Caesar Kalinowski:Awesome, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get to.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's wrap it up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as always, we want to leave you with the big three takeaways from today's topic.
Caesar Kalinowski:If nothing else, you don't want to miss these and you can get a primal PDF of this week's big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all typed out for you as a free download by going to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward big three, big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, here's the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't miss these.
Caesar Kalinowski:First one, if the church keeps doing what it has been doing for decades in connection to disciple making, we will continue to see a decline in Christianity in our time.
Heath Hollensbe:The stats say that too, I've seen reports.
Heath Hollensbe:When
Caesar Kalinowski:we began to believe a small gospel that was man centered and focused on our afterlife in heaven, while we just kept attending church, trying not to sin here on earth, we lost the one true mission of the church, make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no better time than today to start changing our minds, getting some equipping, changing the church, and starting to change the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:In light of what Jesus commanded us to do and promised us he would do with us, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:He didn't even tell us to go to church every Sunday or to read a Bible every week or to, like, go to church.
Heath Hollensbe:Those words
Caesar Kalinowski:never came out of Jesus mouth.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this isn't, that's not a slam.
Caesar Kalinowski:Please go be with the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your building's not a church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, number two.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, number two.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's eternal purpose has always been to fill the world with his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:What he's like, his essence and love.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the grand mystery of the ages, Paul said it was the mystery revealed, is that he always planned to do that, filling the world with his glory, through disciples of Jesus, filled with God's own spirit, making more disciples of Jesus all over the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Every nation, every state, every country.
Caesar Kalinowski:every city, every neighborhood, tribe and tongue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to be a part of the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, why are we going to waste our lives?
Caesar Kalinowski:What chasing the American dream diet?
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's, we leave it all to who knows what, come on or the, whatever, whatever country you live in.
Caesar Kalinowski:You, I know I've talked to other people like, we don't call it the American dream, but we call it the Swedish dream, the Norwegian dream life or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talk through these, these 10 shifts in thinking with, with your church leaders or staff or community, like if you're bold enough, like, right, like I'll put all 10 in with the, with the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or listen to the episode, you know, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Pause it or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, you know, do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And decide on what the implications are for you and your people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remembering that discipleship starts at home.
Caesar Kalinowski:The leader's home and moves outward from there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Get into a coaching relationship to learn how to be a disciple, you know, how to be a disciple, making church or leader,
Heath Hollensbe:you
Caesar Kalinowski:know, chances are, like I said earlier, you've never been discipled in a way that the gospel spoke into and transformed every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:So don't stay stuck.
Caesar Kalinowski:Be humble.
Caesar Kalinowski:Get some help.
Caesar Kalinowski:And again, I would love it if, if, you know, I could be your coach.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and again, Tina and I coach as couples, because if you're going to do this at home, you got to be doing it as couples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, we have some people, we do singles now and then, you know, or someone's like, well, there's just no way I can do this with my spouse, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it's so rare right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:We almost only do, and we prefer to do couples.
Caesar Kalinowski:So again, if you want to just at least check it out, see what's into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:All you got to do right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't blow it off.
Caesar Kalinowski:At least take that first step and check it all out by going to everyday disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you'll get all the details and maybe it's a good fit.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we would love to be your coaches and we'll help you live this life and help you see others make disciples who make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can, we get to, it's not a mystery.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll show you how.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's it for today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks again, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love you, brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:Please join me again, right here, new episodes every Monday.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we'll continue to make discipleship and missional living a whole lot simpler, together.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised, every day.