Rediscovering the Bible’s Relevance Today
More and more people are questioning the validity and relevance of the Bible in today’s culture. Is it all true… is it literal or figurative… does it apply to our lives today?
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’ll walk you through the most common misunderstandings about the Bible and the ways people read this unique document that are leading to confusion and distrust. And we’ll give you the tools to properly read the Bible in light of the divine author’s original intent.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- The Bible was originally an oral document.
- Why the Bible should not be viewed simply as a history book.
- How scripture was originally read together in community and why.
- Why understanding the genre of each book in the Bible changes everything.
Quote from this episode:
“The Bible is best read and understood as a series of stories, narratives, that God has given to us humans to best understand who he is and what he is like. He proves this over and over as the Story that unfolds really does repeat itself from a zillion angles. All of this shows us what is true about us, our identity and how God sees us and how we get to live in this world and rightly interact with God and care for his creation, which includes other humans.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion!
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below.
Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.
Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Everyday Disciple MAKERS: Coaching and Mentorship
Missio Publishing – More Missional Books and Resources
Transcript
Well, is the Bible relevant?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's absolutely relevant.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is it, is it real?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is it true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you understand what it is and how to read it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so in, in IMHO, in my humble opinion, or not so humble opinion, I think the Bible is best read and understood as a series of stories and narratives that God has given to us humans to best understand who He is and what He's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:And He proves this over and over as the story unfolds.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it really does repeat itself like, you know, like from a zillion different angles, so we can't miss it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We talked about like some of those feasts last week and all these different things, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then all of this shows us what is true after showing us what he's like, shows us what's true about us and our identity and how God sees us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then how we get to live in this world because of who we are, how he's created us to be like him and his image, and then rightly interact with God and care for his creation, which includes other humans.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, Discipleship as a Lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm thumping my Bible today, brother.
Heath Hollensbe:The original Bible thumper.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was just looking at some video of some training, the launch stuff we were doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, at the house.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, I was noticing that here we're doing the story of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we're teaching a whole arc, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:The whole story.
Caesar Kalinowski:I noticed in the background on the shelf.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's these two giant Bibles on a bookshelf in my living room and those aren't the ones that we usually use or read, you know, mostly digital these days, but these are like display Bibles, but it's like, man, this guy loves this because there's a big, they're huge.
Caesar Kalinowski:That is awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:And one of them is ancient and the other one was just, this is the biggest Bible I ever saw somewhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I bought it because I was like, that is crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I'm just
Heath Hollensbe:going to have that video
Caesar Kalinowski:about, you know, nerdy Christians.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to drag that sucker.
Heath Hollensbe:That's awesome.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, we, uh, we, thanks for joining us today on the podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:We just wanted to shout out to a couple of reviews.
Heath Hollensbe:Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thank you, brother.
Heath Hollensbe:You're welcome.
Heath Hollensbe:Love you.
Heath Hollensbe:A couple of reviews that we got in that just like we said last week, it was just so encouraging.
Heath Hollensbe:Jay Fellows said, so, so, so, so worth it.
Heath Hollensbe:God is really using Caesar and Heath's podcast to help me have the wisdom and courage to take the next step to live a missional lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks guys.
Heath Hollensbe:Practical and inspiring.
Heath Hollensbe:You go, Jay, fellows.
Heath Hollensbe:Keep
Caesar Kalinowski:going.
Heath Hollensbe:Jay, I, I wanna
Caesar Kalinowski:encourage you, I wanna encourage everybody to that, like live the life you were creating to
Heath Hollensbe:live.
Heath Hollensbe:And then Maddox Gentry said, this podcast gets me excited about some facet of who God is.
Heath Hollensbe:Every time I listen, every week, I never miss.
Heath Hollensbe:It equips me more and more to follow Jesus on community with every episode.
Heath Hollensbe:That's so fun.
Heath Hollensbe:There you go.
Heath Hollensbe:That's why we do this.
Heath Hollensbe:If you haven't left us a review yet, If you wouldn't mind heading over to iTunes and doing that.
Heath Hollensbe:It helps us out.
Heath Hollensbe:It helps Apple when we get those influx and reviews.
Heath Hollensbe:Apple looks at it and goes, hey, this is worth getting out to some new people.
Heath Hollensbe:This episode is dedicated to Greg Heidel who challenged us on Facebook.
Heath Hollensbe:He said, hey, here's a question.
Heath Hollensbe:Here's a topic I want you guys to go after, that would be helpful.
Heath Hollensbe:And here's some questions.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks Greg.
Heath Hollensbe:So we're doing it for you, Greg.
Heath Hollensbe:So hey buddy.
Heath Hollensbe:Thank you.
Heath Hollensbe:Buckle up buddy.
Heath Hollensbe:. Uh, Greg, um, the questions you're asking are actually kind of similar to the ones that I've been asking lately.
Heath Hollensbe:I, I tend to roll with some friends and, and people and networks who are beginning to more and more kind of question the validity of the relevance of the Bible.
Heath Hollensbe:like in today's culture and how we live.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hear that more and more.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, is it literal?
Heath Hollensbe:Is it figurative?
Heath Hollensbe:The Ten Commandments?
Heath Hollensbe:The Two?
Heath Hollensbe:Are we rapture people?
Heath Hollensbe:Are we new earth people?
Heath Hollensbe:There seems to be a ton of different types of thought and opinion pulled out of scripture and we're arguing scripture against each other as a basis.
Heath Hollensbe:What are we supposed to do with
Caesar Kalinowski:all this, Caesar?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we can make the Bible say anything we want to say, right, or not say.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what it used to be.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think, you know, when I, I'm an old Christian, so, but I think we used to just make it say whatever we wanted and divide up into, you know, 1200 different denominations and call it, call, you know, get in your corner.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think now people are just going like, yeah, I don't even want to put that much time into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just chuck it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's just easier to say.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't be.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, just look at it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because what are you supposed to do?
Caesar Kalinowski:You can't wear, you know, clothing like this, or you, you know, you can't be a woman and you can't lead or, you know, it's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:No tattoos.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first let me say that I believe the Bible is a super unique document.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just have to start by saying that if we're going to talk about it, okay, or a series of documents rather.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, and it was, I really believe it was breathed by God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I say breathe because it was an oral document, you know, for a long time and to compare the Bible sort of laterally, you know, like a straight comparison to any other book in history.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really think it starts to soften the wrong foot.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really does, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so we tend to, you can't look at something as unique Best selling book in human history.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:As unique as the Bible and its claims and then say well I kind of believe parts of it, but I don't like these but you know and then compare that to like war and peace You know or like sure or you know the Captain Underpants Matrix trilogy, you know, it's like you just can't compare It's, it's wholly unique regardless of what you think of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's wholly unique.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, additionally, I think we need to see the Bible accurately in a few ways before we can ever start to slice and dice the data and the information and determine, you know, which parts we like or which parts we think are, are accurate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first, a Bible is a collection of books.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's 66 books written over a really long period of time by several authors.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like I already said, it was an oral document, the Old Testament, for like eons before God in his sovereignty chose to have men, empowered by the Spirit, guided by the Holy Spirit, God's own Spirit, write it down.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but it's, remember, it's a collection.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, second, remember the Old Testament, um, like I said, was, it was, it was oral, but it was, it was always.
Caesar Kalinowski:Read aloud in community and then discussed, and the insights and meanings were applied together as a community.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's not how most people do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that we have written word, we get away, we get into our closet, our office, the pastor goes away for 20, 30, 40 hours a week, comes out, tells the whole congregation, this is it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what this passage means, you know, and everybody, no one agrees on any of it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not true.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you know, I mean, there's so much disagreement.
Caesar Kalinowski:The office is the new Mount Sinai.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, but yeah, but it was Originally, it was an oral document and then even after it was written down was always read aloud Yeah, and in community and then discussed You won't get through much scripture that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:They weren't in a rush.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, they weren't in a rush.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, also the New Testament, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That the writings of the New Testament, they were written over a really long time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Very much so.
Caesar Kalinowski:After the events actually occurred and by several different authors, again in several, several different genres.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now we'll talk about genre and all that and why that's so important in just a minute here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talk a lot about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, it's important also to remember that the Bible, um, the, in the ones that most of us own and, and have read, they're not assembled in chronological order.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Surprise.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, the 66 books as they were canonized as the church leaders, hundreds of years ago, brought them together, put them together.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not in order that the story actually unfolded and is still unfolding.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, some people, I believe it or not go, really?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, if you've ever read it straight through, it's not, it loops back on its, it's, it wasn't canonized.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't assembled in order.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was assembled more like catalog, you know, like a library thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that's part of why when you give somebody a Bible and they don't know accurately how to read it, what it's about, how it came together, why God chose to put it together the way he did.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They don't understand that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So be kind of like me taking, and I've used this analogy before, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I just finished this, you know, Grisham novel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I'm going to share it with my neighbor across the fence.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next time I see him, I'll cut the lawn.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what I'm going to do sneakily before I give it to him is I'm going to rip all the chapters out.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to re glue the book out of order.
Caesar Kalinowski:Fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, whole chapters.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll keep them together.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I won't shuffle the pages, but and then I'll, I'll like, I won't tell him I did that and I'll say, but this is a killer book, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, got to read this.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll really rock you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then I'll check in with him.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, how you liking that new book?
Caesar Kalinowski:What's he going to say?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't say.
Caesar Kalinowski:Figure it out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm lost.
Caesar Kalinowski:I kind of started to kinda loop parts to it, but it started looping around.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then I was like confused, like, wait a minute, didn't we already hear that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, see, and so you can get a chronological Bible by the way, but, but not everybody knows that, so I think that's super important to remember.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the Bible's all one big story.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:The Bible is all one big story and people need to realize that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So those are all important things to come to.
Caesar Kalinowski:So why are those
Heath Hollensbe:important things to come
Caesar Kalinowski:to?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like why, why is this important for us today?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first off to know what the book is and how it came together and it was written by lots of people and it was oral for a long time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:All that, because we can't forget these unique things about our Bible and we can't treat them like a, the Bible, like a history book or a science textbook.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great to know.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, like that's how we often do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, that can't be true because, you know, men went to the moon and the rocks are not that old or like, you know, it's like, okay, wait a minute, you're comparing apples to fricking pebbles, you know, apples to birds.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, they're not the same world.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the Bible is not a history book.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not a science textbook.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can't compare it that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:And most people, most Christians I know, they really don't know how.
Caesar Kalinowski:to read the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And whole denominations have kind of mixed this stuff up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Genre and literary device and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then they build, they build whole theologies and then practices and rules.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like I said, denominations around it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it'd be like, I don't know, like almost anything about, let's say, you know, like farming soybeans.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But let's say there's, there's gotta be books and manuals out there, but let's say I don't really ever barely read them.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't really like soy milk, you know, it doesn't like the taste of it, doesn't sit in my stomach right, and so I'll kind of glance at a few chapters here, there, then I'm going, I don't think it's the best protein, you know, and I'll just discount the thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause I don't know anything about it and I don't really know how to look into it even.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't even know begin to, could I grow soy out back here, you know, my lawn?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't consult it when the beans are dying.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, yeah, you know, maybe then, you know, so that's how people read the Bible and that's how people chuck the Bible too.
Caesar Kalinowski:And just go, even Christians go like, well, that's not really that relevant.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause look at what it says here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, wait, whoa, you're taking this so out of context.
Caesar Kalinowski:What if I took, you know, a little piece of a conversation you had with your wife 15 years ago.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I said, so that's what your marriage is based on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, you said it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't deny it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I guess you're a liar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guess it's false then.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's way out of context.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was actually a middle of a joke.
Caesar Kalinowski:We were actually talking about something funny and laughing our guts out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's called sarcasm.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a device, you know, and, and 10, 15 years later, I don't even remember what we were talking about.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just remember crying, laughing about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So no, that's not what my marriage is built on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you said it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't, but we do it by thousand, we do that times a million.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then we say, well, that's studying the Bible and that's why it can't be true.
Caesar Kalinowski:It can't be relevant.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm going to say right now, like here's the pit, here's the tipping point for us in this talk.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, is the Bible relevant?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's absolutely relevant.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is it, is it real?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is it true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you understand what it is and how to read it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so in, in I M H O, in my humble opinion, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or not so humble opinion.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think the Bible is best read and understood as a series of stories and narratives that God has given to us humans to best understand who he is.
Caesar Kalinowski:and what he's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he proves this over and over as the story unfolds.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it really does repeat itself like, you know, like from a zillion different angles.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we can't miss it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We talked about like some of those feasts last week and all these different angles, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then all of this shows us what is true after showing us what he's like, shows us what's true about us.
Caesar Kalinowski:and our identity, how God sees us, and then how we get to live in this world because of who we are, how he's created us to be like him in his image, and then rightly interact with God and care for his creation, which includes other humans.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's best understood, not as a science book, not proof texting out of genre, not a context and trying to apply it here and say, well, it can't be true because look at that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not true.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's my experience.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it's, it's a series of stories best understood like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's unfolding God's revealing truth about himself and who we are and how we get to live.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you got to remember, all of this fits together as one big story.
Caesar Kalinowski:The Bible is all one big story.
Caesar Kalinowski:I didn't always know that.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really didn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, when you,
Heath Hollensbe:when you actually look at it as a story, it changes everything.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, it's, you can't go back to the other way.
Heath Hollensbe:Peace.
Heath Hollensbe:I was in church for
Caesar Kalinowski:30, 40 years, you know, until I started realizing, oh my gosh, it really, really is all one complete story and it all fits together.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I would see all the preaching, all the classes, Bible college seminar, all that stuff, It didn't teach that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're drilling down microscopically, topically, sort of to apply it to behavioral modification.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Making sure we could get to have it, you know, or something, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So anyway,
Heath Hollensbe:one of the things you just hit on, uh, that I want to remind people of is we just a couple episodes did, uh, a conversation about identity and what God says is true of all of us.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, that's episode 1 58 and we had Joe Saxton on Awesome, awesome episode.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh.
Heath Hollensbe:So if you haven't gotten a chance to listen back to that, that's episode 1 58 and then also episode 1 48, which is about who you are and why do you matter.
Heath Hollensbe:I think both of those will be helpful in people growing in their understanding of who they are.
Heath Hollensbe:Identity.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, so, um, Greg asked, one of the things that he put in the Facebook suggestion was, I wonder if at times we want to do what we want to do and therefore we rationalize scripture theologically, or if it is really a biblical sound evolution of God's words.
Heath Hollensbe:Whoa.
Heath Hollensbe:Good question, Greg.
Heath Hollensbe:So what are some ways or maybe even perhaps some different lenses that Christians today can use, uh, if they want to get better at interpreting and applying the Bible?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, let's talk about the importance of genre.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I kind of said I'd get there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, first there's, there's literal language in the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, facts and actual events, literal, and there's a lot of figurative language in there as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's important to pay attention to what is being said and how.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, if something's not literal, it's figurative, then you shouldn't take it as literal.
Caesar Kalinowski:But people do it all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then they discount it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it meant to be taken literally?
Caesar Kalinowski:That was figurative language.
Caesar Kalinowski:Literal language means exactly what it says.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whereas like figurative language uses simile, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Metaphors, hyperbole.
Caesar Kalinowski:And personification to describe something that's not, like it's inanimate, uh, or often through comparison with something else.
Caesar Kalinowski:For instance, here's a literal description, grass looks green.
Caesar Kalinowski:But a figurative description was the grass looks like spiky green hair.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a simile.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, if in scripture said the grass was like spiky green hair.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, see, hair's not hair unless it's spiky and green.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, that's figurative.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was talking about grass and your hair's not, you know, so you wouldn't do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But people do it in scripture all the time or the flower smells sweet.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's literal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But figurative would be the flower is the sweetest smelling thing in the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, it's hyperbole.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's taking something and it's blowing it up so big that you get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow, flowers smell great.
Heath Hollensbe:I love that, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is it really?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know if that, is it the point?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, it's the sweetest.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, if it's not the sweetest, I guess it's a lie.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, no, it's, it's hyperbole.
Caesar Kalinowski:You got to understand the device.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's all.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's hyperbole all through scripture or grasshoppers make.
Caesar Kalinowski:a high pitched noise.
Caesar Kalinowski:That'd be literal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:A figurative description might be grasshoppers are like fiddlers who play their legs and they're personifying a fiddle with a grasshopper.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Now all that stuff's going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's metaphor.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And lots of that is in the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you've heard expressions like he drowned in a sea of grief.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or she's fishing in troubled waters there, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now all these expressions have one thing in common.
Caesar Kalinowski:A situation, you know, is being compared to a real thing, all the way the situation is not actually the particular thing, it's so you can learn and understand it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sea of grief?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, how and where does one come across a sea that is filled not with water but with grief?
Caesar Kalinowski:But we get it, it's metaphor, it's just, there's so much grief, it's like, oh my gosh, it's huge, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or fishing.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not used to mean the person's actually fishing, you know, in a sea of, you know, or in troubled waters.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's an expression you signify a person's looking for something that's pretty difficult to obtain.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna get him in trouble.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the Bible has lots of metaphors.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean think about here's, I mean literally pages and pages of metaphor.
Caesar Kalinowski:The Lord is my shepherd.
Caesar Kalinowski:I shall not want.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is a commonly alluded to metaphor from one of the most famous passages in all scripture
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:God's compared to a shepherd someone whose duty is to look after and care for a sheep Let me just tell you the Lord doesn't have a part time job tending sheep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's metaphor.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody gets that Yeah, okay, or Jesus said I'm the bread of life He who comes to me will not hunger and he who believes in me will never thirst Well, in that metaphor, Jesus is comparing himself to bread, bread of life, symbolic that Jesus offers eternal fulfillment.
Caesar Kalinowski:His life will sustain our lives.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus metaphor suggested he can sustain us in that spiritual sense.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus isn't a loaf of bread.
Heath Hollensbe:You're saying he's not a literal loaf of bread.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going out on a limb, bro, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:So those are devices.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then let's look at specific genres themselves that are found in the Bible.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's historical narratives.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're actually narratives.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're historical.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is a list of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Genesis, Exodus, Numbers.
Caesar Kalinowski:Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Jonah, Acts, so that's historical narrative.
Caesar Kalinowski:There you go, that's storyline.
Caesar Kalinowski:That stuff went down.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, along though those historical narratives, often they will break into some of the other genres.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you have the law, that's the last half of Exodus, also Leviticus Deuteronomy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Law, a law book.
Caesar Kalinowski:My son's an attorney.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've read some of his law briefs.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my gosh, they read like, I don't know what.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not story.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not science fiction.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not there.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a whole nother world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, we've got two and a half books full of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then it's sprinkled throughout as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wisdom books, Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, they're the books of wisdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:You have to read and they're full of, like I said, both figurative and literal and figurative literal and they're full of simile and metaphor and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, so you can't just read a simile and go like, well, there it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can't do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, Whoa, Whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then you had Psalms.
Caesar Kalinowski:And Song of Solemn Lamentations.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's more poetry.
Caesar Kalinowski:By the way, part of Genesis starts out with poetry.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really poetry That leads to narrative so it starts out with a poem.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, and then then you got all the books of prophecy Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Zebra, Zechariah, Malachi, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Lots.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then you've got some apocalyptic books Very different type of literature Apocalyptic Daniel, Book of Revelation It is so full of metaphor and simile.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not historical narrative.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, and you'd do it a disservice if you actually were to try to take something like that literally, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, you Yeah, I mean, I remember growing
Caesar Kalinowski:up thinking, oh my god, I'm gonna, I'm Daniel, I'm gonna get thrown into a lion's den, you know, I'm gonna have to,
Caesar Kalinowski:Me and Shadrach, we're in an oven, oh my god, you know, Abednego, Abed, how do you pronounce, you
Heath Hollensbe:know, it's like, I remember being a kid, like, looking for different, like, my mom was concerned about lasers and stuff that, or not my mom, but my friend's mom, like, man, you're gonna, You got to watch out.
Heath Hollensbe:You can't go to this store.
Heath Hollensbe:Cause they, they're going to imprint the chip of six, six, six, seven, four head and stuff like that.
Heath Hollensbe:I don't
Caesar Kalinowski:think that's so like.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's that is an apocalyptic type of literature full of simile all kinds of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, to be learned from.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then, then you have, there's another genre, gospels.
Caesar Kalinowski:Those are actual accounts of things that went down purposely from different perspectives.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember I said it's a series of narratives and Book of Acts also narrative with, you know, them on their journeys now living out Jesus life.
Caesar Kalinowski:They get to live the same life he did.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's the epistles, which are letters.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what the word means.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:He got Romans.
Caesar Kalinowski:He got the first, second Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, all the way, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:John, Jude, lots of stuff, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Those were letters.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now think about when you write someone a letter.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you sometimes put like, okay, and then this happened.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's a little historical narrative and then sometimes if you ever dropped in a metaphor, so I felt like the biggest dummy, you know, like on Mars, you know, it's like, well, never been, you know, and then you might get into like, that's, it reminded me of, I'll love you to the end of the earth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like you can't literally do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, that's what does that mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so letters, but then if you're writing it to someone specific.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like my wife, I have a tattoo that like, there's a, there's a, there's a little phrase that she has signed off letters to me in notes forever and ever and ever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's always in forever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think it's originated with her or us, but that means something to us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if I wrote always forever to you, you'd be like, that's weird.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And is it really always in forever?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like whatever she just wrote about?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, but she's implying something about her affection for me and our relationship and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Letters are written with specific purposes to specific people or specific people groups and they're often full of all kinds of genre.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then, so then you have to read them like, okay, this was years ago and I wrote this letter to my son.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was right after high school and he was moving away overseas and he had been asking me about this and it was starting to have this in his life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't great.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I wrote him this letter and I poured out my heart and I used analogy and I used stuff from my past life.
Caesar Kalinowski:I referenced old stuff that happened in his life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And no one else would probably understand it.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:but it really changed him.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Heath Hollensbe:So that's what the epistles are full of.
Heath Hollensbe:So it sounds like it's really important for us to understand this genre stuff, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like I had a conversation today with a guy who says The Bible is completely literal.
Heath Hollensbe:And I go, it's not, it's just not,
Caesar Kalinowski:that's tough.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you've done any little bit of study of, of, uh, you know, God is my rock.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, like, yeah, God's a rock.
Caesar Kalinowski:There he is.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just like a boulder.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hit him with a hammer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Didn't even hurt it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's like, no, it's not, there is literal stuff in there and it's truth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just like poetry can be true, but it's a poem.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And, and, you know, and, and different genres have different purposes, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like when you're putting together something from Ikea, you're not gonna have tons of allegory and hyperbole.
Heath Hollensbe:It's going to be.
Heath Hollensbe:Here's kind of a guy holding an allen wrench and pointing stuff and you get it done, you know, it
Caesar Kalinowski:was allegory It's a different type of literature.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's
Heath Hollensbe:illustrative, you know So it sounds like we do need to understand this genre stuff at least a little bit before we make big decisions about the Bible And what it says and its
Caesar Kalinowski:relevance, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:absolutely And and I don't think we do and I and I remember like when the light bulb for this really really started going on In my life was during seminary which I would, I didn't go, I didn't seminary until I was 40, planting churches and, you know, all this, I was late bloomer in that sense.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I mean, I knew the word, but not like, you know, maybe today I'm still learning.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I remember going through our, you know, hermeneutics, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And realizing, Oh, I need to go back and reread that book completely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause I read that through the lens of And wait a minute, right in the middle of that, this statement isn't literal, it's figurative.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because that's how people write letters.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then I, you know, go back to this, like, well, that's an apocalyptic thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've spent years and years and years trying to sort that out, and I'm totally worried about tattoos or something, you know what I'm saying?
Caesar Kalinowski:But then it says Jesus is coming back with King of Kings, Lord of Lords written on his thigh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is he really?
Caesar Kalinowski:If he is, he's got tattoos, so then get off of people's cases, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:So you, We, we never do that in anything else.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I say this to people like, okay, so let's take a genre, um, comedy.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a genre, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You can write a book or you can watch a movie or it can be music.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's comedic, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's comedy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Would it be appropriate and beneficial if you read, um, comedy and you said, but I didn't realize it was a comedy.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I read it in the genre of historical narrative.
Caesar Kalinowski:And apparently those people are crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd never go there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Those Irish, you know, whatever, you know, So you go like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you not realize this was a comedy or let's say something was hysterical, historical, historical narrative.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there was, this is actually true, but you thought it was apocalyptic.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:So full of metaphor and simile and, you know, pictures and imagery to kind of cause us to think differently about something.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you went, Whoa, so that's going to happen again?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, no, no, that we don't, we don't use ball and musket and all, you know, and all, you know, like Jesus isn't a loaf of bread.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like he comes back, we're going to hang out and eat his arm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like do I get to butter it?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like bake it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I love garlic, but you know, like you would never do that with other books and types of literature.
Caesar Kalinowski:You wouldn't, you wouldn't go to work, like say your job was, you know, I don't know, you're a technician of some sort, you're repairing some sort of machinery.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's manuals for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:You wouldn't say, well, you know, and I just got tired of that manual.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just couldn't even get into it anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't helping my wife and kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so now I'm repairing copiers, but I got this killer book of poetry I use.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it
Caesar Kalinowski:doesn't work.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not working there much longer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so yes, it's super important.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so do I think the Bible is true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you know and understand why it came together, what God's purposes were, why there's so, now, why is there so many genres and literary styles and devices?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because that's how diverse God is.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's how diverse our lives are.
Caesar Kalinowski:No 10 things.
Caesar Kalinowski:Only what if we only had the 10 commandments, by the way, people don't even understand those.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:People don't understand those.
Caesar Kalinowski:The laws were given as this is how you get to live with me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so the first half, it's all about relationship with me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second half, it's all about how you live with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is super important to me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Doesn't work if there's not trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:Doesn't work if you're on the throne, I have to be, that's why it's the first commandment.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we don't even understand that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we turn everything into something that was never meant to be.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then when we get sick of it, Because it's been wrong all along, we chuck it because it couldn't be that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now notice I'm purposely avoiding all these hot button issues in the press.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because that does it a disservice.
Caesar Kalinowski:That does this amazing book, this amazing Word of God disservice.
Caesar Kalinowski:If I say well this or that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go back and take these things that you're so up in arms about or so ready to chuck scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go like, well look at this and look at this.
Caesar Kalinowski:These say the opposite things.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do they really?
Caesar Kalinowski:I've yet to have anybody, and I'm not even Mr.
Caesar Kalinowski:Joe Theologian here, Mr.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hermeneutical expert, but I've not had anybody yet bring me something like, see there, that proves it's, that proves it's false.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, wait a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go back.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's, first off, this is the genre, saying what it's talking about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't, don't pull out 18 words.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go back a chapter or a whole book.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, or let's put the whole let's put the whole thing back in order and then now let's look at that What do you think that mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean something completely different, doesn't it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep, and that's why we misunderstood it.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:I love it, man Hey, let's get a big three, which is the big three takeaways want people to walk away with from this episode minimally, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:And there's obviously a lot you could take.
Heath Hollensbe:This is a a way of actually changing the trajectory of how you read scripture, you can get these for free by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three right now.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Heath Hollensbe:Here we go.
Heath Hollensbe:Big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:First one, the Bible is never meant to be a book of rules, historical data, or a science manual.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just not.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you use it that way, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not going to work.
Caesar Kalinowski:Reading it properly, understanding the genre and type of literature devices, so like stuff I was talking about, simile, narrative, figurative, all that, literal, will help you to better read and understand what God is conveying in each passage.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:It is key that we understand that the Bible is one big story in order to best fit this all together accurately.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it does beautifully, amazingly, and otherwise we're in danger of like proof texting ourselves and everyone else into error and legalism.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm,
Caesar Kalinowski:that's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number two.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number two.
Caesar Kalinowski:God desires I think above all that you would know him and Believe what he says is true about you and that you trust him in every area of your life And that's why he gave us his word.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all every bit of it I believe this is all for our good in his glory 2nd Timothy 316 all scriptures God breathed and it's useful You for teaching, rebuking, correcting, training in righteousness.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the Bible's not a dusty old book.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not dead.
Caesar Kalinowski:It meets us right where we are at today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And uniquely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Compared to any other type of document in human history.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hebrews 4.
Caesar Kalinowski:12 says, for the Word of God is alive.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's alive and active.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's alive!
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like the yeast, yeah, that's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, third, the Bible is best read and understood as a series of stories.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know that's not all story and narrative, but it's best understood that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:The text in there has helped us understand who God is and what he's like and Jesus, Son of God, came to show us what is true about us and our identity and how God sees us and how we get to live in this world with him.
Caesar Kalinowski:So become a student of the word, read the gospels often, like really look at Jesus life and what he said.
Caesar Kalinowski:Being a true disciple requires that we know and trust and obey God's Word.
Heath Hollensbe:That's right, man.
Heath Hollensbe:It really does.
Heath Hollensbe:You can't
Caesar Kalinowski:chuck the word and then say, but I love Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, He is the Word.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, He is the Word made flesh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:I love that.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, if you want to get those big three, you can get them for free by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three right now.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, we're done with this episode, but we'd like to thank you for joining us.
Heath Hollensbe:If you haven't yet joined the Facebook group, great time to do it.
Heath Hollensbe:Get over there.
Heath Hollensbe:Find us, look it up, look up Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:Next week is going to be a little bit different, but it's going to be really fun and fascinating.
Heath Hollensbe:It's super fascinating.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, you showed me this video a while back, and I was like, hey, we gotta do a podcast about
Caesar Kalinowski:this.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're gonna love it.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show, and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.