How Introverts and Extroverts Shape a Family on Mission
The difference between introverts and extroverts is one of the most misunderstood aspects of personality. So many people get it wrong, leading to myths and assumptions that just don’t hold up.
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re setting the record straight. We’ll break down the biggest misconceptions and uncover how both introverts and extroverts play a vital role in living together as a family on mission.
The truth is, we all have moments when we crave solitude and quiet—Jesus certainly did. And at times, even the most introverted among us step into social settings and engage with others—just like Jesus often did. Understanding this balance is key to thriving together.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- How introversion has nothing to do with “being shy”
- Why extroverts don’t always have to be the life of the party
- How spouses that are on opposite ends of this can better understand each other
- Ways culture has taught us to hide our self-love behind these distinctions
- Why we need each other to be more fully like Jesus and make disciples
From this episode:
“Remember, whether introverted or extroverted God has gifted you differently than others AND he knows who will be a good fit for you relationally. Let God lead you to those “people of peace” who will love you for who you are. Extroverts are great for drawing a crowd, and introverts are more naturally drawn to fewer folks but go deeper into relationship. We need both in our missional communities.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.
Free Discipleship and Missional Resources
Transcript
One's not better than the other.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're just different.
Caesar Kalinowski:But neither is like a license to hide behind it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And say, well, I don't do those things 'cause I'm, I'm this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's actually
Heath Hollensbe:super helpful because I am definitely, as I said, massive extrovert.
Heath Hollensbe:My wife Kathleen, massive introvert.
Heath Hollensbe:I come home from a long, stressful day of work.
Heath Hollensbe:She can't figure out why.
Heath Hollensbe:For me, I would desire to go out and have a couple beers with some guys.
Heath Hollensbe:For her, she'd rather sit behind a book and under a blanket and recharge.
Heath Hollensbe:So as you can imagine with us living in a fallen world, there's times where these, if you're wired completely different.
Heath Hollensbe:There's the clash of the two.
Heath Hollensbe:And so my wife, and I'll talk quite a bit, because we operate so differently that it'll sometimes leads to some tension in our, in our marriage.
Heath Hollensbe:People listening are like, I can't
Caesar Kalinowski:under, I don't even relate.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm the only one on planet Earth like this.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're only guy,
Heath Hollensbe:you and
Caesar Kalinowski:Kathleen.
Caesar Kalinowski:So weird.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Heath Hollensbe:Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hello.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hello, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you, I'm gonna just go right for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you an extrovert or an introvert?
Caesar Kalinowski:I have, I don't think any introvert in me.
Caesar Kalinowski:100% Extrover.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're way out there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty close to that too.
Caesar Kalinowski:I did do an assessment recently again, just to see, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think I cheated it though 'cause like I know what the kind of questions they're asking, but I was still even in cheating it, you
Caesar Kalinowski:know, trying to like seem nicer or something to seem more moderate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I wanna be like Jesus 'cause his needle has to be right in the middle or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:No, we're, this is actually a really fun conversation I think.
Heath Hollensbe:And it's gonna provide, I know for me in my marriage, a lot of clarity 'cause my wife is.
Heath Hollensbe:Whatever.
Heath Hollensbe:I am extreme extrovert, she's extreme introvert, which leads to issues and frustrations.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And not know how to understand one another.
Heath Hollensbe:Um, well, they're, we're wired pretty differently.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Especially when it comes to social interaction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, what I'm finding is that the topic of introvert extrovert is often really misunderstood.
Heath Hollensbe:The basis of, of how we even define what each is.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Very much so.
Heath Hollensbe:The distinctions are not accurate and so.
Heath Hollensbe:No one seems to really understand, almost nobody, these differences in personalities.
Heath Hollensbe:Do you have, uh, have you experienced that as well?
Heath Hollensbe:It's like we're starting on the wrong foot.
Caesar Kalinowski:I certainly have, and like a lot of things when it comes to like personality assessments or preferences in life, we assume like the worst of people who are different than us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like I really like hanging out with extroverts surprise, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then before you understand some of these things, you don't know why, you just go like, nah, I really like that guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nah, nah, not him much.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not much, you know, but.
Caesar Kalinowski:Actually, the truth is both are really, really needed for healthy community, for living together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like a mission, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because there's all kinds of people in the world, and so as we're like disciples who make disciples and all that, we really need to understand this better.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, it's a bit of a, I wouldn't say it's hot button, like on TV kind of news, you know, I result over it, but when I've spoken about it or written about it before.
Caesar Kalinowski:I always get tons of mail.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:People are freed up and other people are like super offended by it 'cause they kinda got nailed.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, so, and those, and I think our listeners today are gonna know what I'm saying, like we're, I'm gonna nail, I'm gonna nail this, but I'm gonna
Caesar Kalinowski:be fair, I'm gonna like both sides 'cause I wanna bring the gospel into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like there is really a thing behind the thing here when it comes to, uh, understanding introversion and extroversion.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think most people don't really understand it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They really don't.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:What we've always said, our mantra has been is how to get faith to fit into every area of your life.
Heath Hollensbe:So why would we leave it out of how we're wired?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:As far as extroverts or introverts.
Heath Hollensbe:And this one can change a lot for us pretty quickly.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:So let's, what I like to do usually is start off with defining some definitions.
Heath Hollensbe:Good.
Heath Hollensbe:And I think that most of our listeners are probably, I would say very few are unaware with the whole introvert extrovert conversation at all.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, um, well, everybody, everybody assumes they like, this is who I am.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:But they don't necessarily know what it really means.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe you can unpack this whole.
Caesar Kalinowski:Give some definitions to Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:To these phrases.
Caesar Kalinowski:Little history lesson here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:A very short one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, so extroversion and introversion are, um, are these preferences that we have originally used in a personality inventory that was
Caesar Kalinowski:created like in the twenties by this Swiss psychologist named Carl Jung.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:And
Caesar Kalinowski:so people that like are into psychology or psychiatry or anything that they would, they would know who Carl Jung is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but he's the guy who kind of first coined that and started to identify preferences.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, within our personality types.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Most people today may be more familiar with these terms in connection with the Myers-Brigg type inventory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot of people at work or even maybe through church or team building exercises they've done in Myers-Briggs,
Heath Hollensbe:which is like the ENFP or ENFJ or I-N-F-E-N-T.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:All that stuff, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Myers Briggs.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I I like to call it the Briggs and Stratton.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's just see the name of a lawnmower engine or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the, these un these terms though are unfortunately.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're kind of outmoded because, not 'cause they're not valuable, because they're misunderstood and misused in that extroversion iss not about being loud or the life of the party.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And introversion is not about being shy or antisocial.
Caesar Kalinowski:I. But that's actually just the beginning of starting to understand this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Un unfortunately that's the way I've always heard it put or taught is that I hear people using extrovert or introvert as excuses as to
Heath Hollensbe:why they are a certain way or don't like doing certain things with others.
Heath Hollensbe:So like, yeah, I don't like, uh, I don't like going out to baseball games 'cause I'm an introvert.
Heath Hollensbe:And you're going like, okay, well, that, that might not be it.
Heath Hollensbe:It's more about how we're filled and we'll, we'll talk about it in a second.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:But, um, I'm sure you
Caesar Kalinowski:know what I mean.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So these preferences either being, you know, more extroverted or more introverted.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, actually, and, and this is what it was originally too, like when Carl Jung was writing about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:They actually have to do with how people get their energy and recharge emotionally and mentally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not a social preference per se.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's what's going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Extroverts draw their energy from other people and interaction.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:While introverts draw their energy from within.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So they do that within themselves and through reflection.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's about how you recharge.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not about how many people you like to be around.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's important to understand that there are times when, you know, all of us feel more introverted and need to be alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or seek a quiet place.
Caesar Kalinowski:I seem to remember Jesus doing that from time to time.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, there are also times when even the most introverted person will go to a party and they'll function socially and they'll have a good time again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus did this pretty often as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:He threw loads, loads of parties, was at parties all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:We all actually possess elements of both introversion and extroversion.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just that we're gonna kind of have a primary or dominant preference.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it has really though, more to do with how we recharge, how we refuel.
Caesar Kalinowski:So
Heath Hollensbe:it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like a car, right?
Heath Hollensbe:You go to parties all the time.
Heath Hollensbe:The introvert to fill up the gas tank is going, I'm on fumes.
Heath Hollensbe:I need to spend some time alone and reflect.
Heath Hollensbe:And that fills up the gas tank so that when parties arise and stuff like that, they have the energy right.
Heath Hollensbe:To go into those things.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:That's right.
Heath Hollensbe:So and so,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, like I say this way, sometimes it's like after a busy day at work, you know, introverts have to interact all day.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so they need to get, they get to, they need to, you know, be alone for a bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:They need to recharge it some time to reflect, get some quiet, right.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whereas like an extrovert gets done with work and goes like, man, I cannot wait to hit, you know, the cafe or the pub.
Caesar Kalinowski:You
Heath Hollensbe:know?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna call my buddy, see who's round tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, let's go to the, Hey, I got tickets to the game.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go to the game, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how they actually recharge.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is by additional interaction.
Caesar Kalinowski:One's not better than the other.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're just different.
Caesar Kalinowski:But neither is like a license to hide behind it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And say, well, I don't do those things 'cause I'm, I'm this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's actually super
Heath Hollensbe:helpful because I am definitely, as I said, massive extrovert.
Heath Hollensbe:My wife Kathleen, massive introvert.
Heath Hollensbe:I come home from a long, stressful day of work.
Heath Hollensbe:She has, she can't figure out why.
Heath Hollensbe:For me, I would desire to go out and have a couple beers with some guys.
Heath Hollensbe:For her, she'd rather sit behind a book and under a blanket and recharge.
Heath Hollensbe:So as you can imagine with us living in a fallen world, uh, there's times where these, if you're wired completely different.
Heath Hollensbe:There's the clash of the two.
Heath Hollensbe:And so, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh.
Heath Hollensbe:My wife, and I'll talk quite a bit because we operate so differently that it'll sometimes leads to some tension in our, in our marriage.
Heath Hollensbe:People
Caesar Kalinowski:listening are like, I can't under, I don't even relate.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm the
Heath Hollensbe:only one on planet earth.
Heath Hollensbe:You're the only guy.
Heath Hollensbe:You and Kathleen News.
Heath Hollensbe:That's so weird.
Heath Hollensbe:How would I best go about as a servant of Jesus trying to serve my wife, uh, and to seek to understand her, you know, as a lifelong learner, which we talked about in, um, in episode 1 0 9.
Heath Hollensbe:If I wanna be a lifelong learner in how to really learn and understand from my wife, which is a great episode to listen to, if you haven't heard that one yet, uh, what encouragement would you give
Heath Hollensbe:to people who have a hard time understanding people that are not wired at them, like them at all?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you might not do your recharging together enough for one, because remember that that's the issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not, it's not a preference of social interaction.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a, uh, a need to recharge and you do it in different ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's helpful.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's not against, you don't need to feel that pressure to help.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I really need to go out and do this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you want to come?
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, well, what's wrong with my friends?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like, well, I, I'm nothing I, you need to bere charged.
Caesar Kalinowski:I need to bere charged too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So she's kind of getting it, do it separately.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of, that's it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, that, that, that's what's going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I, but let me take it a little further.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not, I'm not gonna throw Cath Kathleen or anyone else under the bus here, but sometimes, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:The claim of introversion can actually be a smokescreen for self focus.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or an attempt to cover up fear of man issues.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you unpack that maybe a little bit?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Both are actually an issue of unbelief in the, in the full bigger gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Both are issues of unbelief in the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like there's this internal dialogue in the introvert's head that's saying, well, the best way I know to protect and control what others think of me is to avoid people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I can do that, but go, well, I'm an introvert.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what I'm really trying to do is.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know if I'm out there amongst loads of people, if I can control what they all think of me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's
Heath Hollensbe:a control thing.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the best way is to avoid it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But the gospel is good news that God loves us deeply so we can put ourselves out there with others, securing the knowledge that, hey, you know, who
Caesar Kalinowski:matters the most is God and his opinion, and we have his love and affection.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:It changes it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So still have an issue of recharging.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, but to not be amongst people because we fear their opinion.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so how I manage it is I hide by my introversion.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's that's a gospel issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we all have the choice to be with people each day or not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who and what will be the focus of our time, energy, and resources.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's another question.
Caesar Kalinowski:Where will the source of strength for my interactions come from?
Caesar Kalinowski:My own super limited supply.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or the Holy Spirit's endless apply.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So
Caesar Kalinowski:when an introvert's like, well, I haven't recharged to the degree I'd like to, so I don't, I I really can't go out and be amongst people.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can't in your own strength.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you could, in the power of the Holy Spirit, which is the power that raised Christ from the dead, I bet you can go out and have a good time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because what you're doing is then you're saying, holy Spirit help me shift my focus and my time and my energy to others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's very different now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I still need to be charged alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can do that and be with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can choose that on enough strength of the spirit.
Heath Hollensbe:You can throw me under the bus.
Heath Hollensbe:We've talked a little about that.
Heath Hollensbe:Maybe what's happening with introverts behind the introversion thing?
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Being an extrovert.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh.
Heath Hollensbe:What, what might that issue be for extroverts?
Heath Hollensbe:If control.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:It's, it's actually
Caesar Kalinowski:kind of the same, believe it or not, just the other side of the coin.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:You, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But yeah, here we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's fair, fair, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here for us extroverts, um, I'm an extrovert so I can speak to this, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, there are times and in my life it used to be more often, we were talking about this a little bit earlier.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, you and I off, off mic.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, and it used to be a stronger pull on me than it is today, but, but there, there were times when I needed to be out with people.
Heath Hollensbe:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like in the middle of every conversation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sort of the witty, smart guy that knows a lot about a lot of things.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, you know my story and Tina and I have owned lots of businesses and been all over the world do ministry.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I mean, we are unlimited stories, so I always have a story, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, it doesn't matter what story someone's got, I'm like, been there, done that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Probably a little better, you know, in my own mind.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, but I used to really more so need to be that guy and, um, I.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, now I could, and I would claim, well, that's because I'm an extrovert.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's just how I roll.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:I like people, I people, and you tell stories and, but if I always have to be in the center of a group and getting attention, see then the thing behind the thing there is that
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I may not be believing that I'm loved and affirmed by this creator of the universe.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Always loving, perfect father God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who, who says, this is my son, Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're my son.
Caesar Kalinowski:He, you're my son, and you bring me great joy.
Caesar Kalinowski:I gave you all my best affection and attention when I sent my son Jesus, to be with you and rescue you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And save you from guess what Yourself See?
Caesar Kalinowski:So see how the unbelief is both connected to something that's not true of God, but we put it, you know, we focus on ourself, not God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so now I need to hide behind my extroverting.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or the, I, it's like a,
Heath Hollensbe:it's like a multiple bent on the same issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really, it really is crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And it's interesting, that always comes back to this unbelief.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, it's true that most of the sin behind the sin is unbelief in the gospel.
Heath Hollensbe:So like,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, super practical here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you're an introvert and you're like, no, I can't, I don't really, you know, I remember one time a person saying to me, we were talking about Michel community life and meeting your
Caesar Kalinowski:neighbors, you know, and doing things and I was telling some of the stories about our life and Tina and parties and, you know, barbecues and all that, and they're like, I could never do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, why is that?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm an introvert.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was like, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:She goes, in fact, I've never had anybody over.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I had to talk to her about the unbelief in what was true of God and his love for her.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And perfect acceptance that she already had.
Caesar Kalinowski:That she could say, well, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a thing going on in the neighborhood tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:My community's involved in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So instead of saying, I can't, 'cause I'm an introvert, what I need to do instead of say I should plan to get some restorative time after work, so I got a little something in the tank.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I'll recharged a bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna go out and love on people in the power of the spirit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Same with the extrovert.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Our identity should not live in light of whether we're introverts or extroverts.
Caesar Kalinowski:It should be in what God has said is true of us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Boom.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:well stated.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, well stated.
Caesar Kalinowski:Same for the extrovert.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, there's a thing in the neighborhood tonight.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me just double check and reaffirm the father's love in my life.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm believing that's true of him.
Caesar Kalinowski:True of what he says of me.
Caesar Kalinowski:So tonight I don't have to be that guy who has to be center of everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, wow.
Heath Hollensbe:Moving this to more of a practical level, uh, we talked in episode number 1 0 6.
Heath Hollensbe:About how to find true community and meeting in your small group and, uh,
Caesar Kalinowski:can yeah, kind of move, start moving it to more richer forms and deeper relational forms of mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:And one of the things that was really neat is we had a listener named Christian Bender who sent us a question after we had aired that episode, just asking
Heath Hollensbe:if we'd be willing to explore the topic of how we're wired as an introvert or an extrovert, how that influences our ability to lead a missional community.
Heath Hollensbe:Or even be part of one and what each can contribute to the community.
Heath Hollensbe:Because if we do believe that there together we represent the fullness of made in the image of God, both introverts and extroverts made uniquely in the image of God.
Heath Hollensbe:The fullness of the gospel shows that we have to come together and serve one another and figure this thing out together.
Heath Hollensbe:So maybe you could talk to how we, uh.
Heath Hollensbe:How, how the, how it all plays together in the C setting?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a great question.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a great question.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think it's really a question about how we lead and interact together in community, uh, with those who have different personalities than us or different strengths.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, I think that's what's, you know, in Christian's question there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So remember, uh, whether we're introverted or extroverted, God has gifted us differently than others and okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he knows who will be a good fit for you relationally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now if you're an introvert within your community or at a larger meal or party, you don't have to feel like you need to meet every single person.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And be cracking jokes all night and then drop the mic, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not that, that's not who you are as an introvert, probably, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but let God lead you to those people of peace.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, those people kinda leaning into relationship and spirituality.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who will love you for who you are.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, I would say like in any given community team, and I'll have plenty of friends hanging around and new friends, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:We need loads of people who are a little slower paced, better listeners who will go the long haul in community with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I, I need those more introverted, sort of more reflective types in the community.
Caesar Kalinowski:That might even spend time recharging with just one other person, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Instead of like, woo, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And if, if a community was all like, woo party, you know, no one's ever getting cared for, listened to very well, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We super, super need each other there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So extroverts are great for drawing a crowd and introverts are more naturally drawn to fewer folks, but they generally go deeper into relationship and we really need both in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think one of the things too that you would've,
Heath Hollensbe:you'd say is that it's really.
Heath Hollensbe:It's really easy for us to pin people that aren't like us as either threats or enemies or like hindrances.
Heath Hollensbe:Hindrances, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Rather than going like, no, the way with my wife sometimes I go like, we're just wired so differently that we're, it's easy for
Heath Hollensbe:you to become my enemy because we don't see eye to eye on this.
Heath Hollensbe:Rather than going, lemme seek to understand you because when I seek to understand you, like there is a, there's a benefit of going, you're not my enemy.
Heath Hollensbe:We need to constantly remember that like the way we're uniquely wired.
Heath Hollensbe:It presents that fullness of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Once we tap
Caesar Kalinowski:in, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Once we tap into that a little bit too.
Caesar Kalinowski:It becomes much more apparent, you know, and which humbles us a little bit and also makes God look really wise and gracious because he's,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, he's giving us exactly what we need in our communities.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he's drawing people to different people in different ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's, that's where the fullness of who he is and his image being born in a community is gonna come out through all kinds of characters.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think about how, think about how different the 12 apostles were that Jesus chose, the disciples he chose.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, they could not have been more different.
Caesar Kalinowski:More different.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean like Wow.
Heath Hollensbe:And
Caesar Kalinowski:yet the whole world got changed, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So when trying to like move toward a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:Of discipleship and mission, sort of, kind of just springboarding off a Christian's question there, or just even in life generally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like maybe if you, a person has never understood that and you kind of hid behind it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, here's some questions to ask yourself or maybe ask the spirit to illuminate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So when.
Caesar Kalinowski:Trying to move toward a lifestyle of discipleship and mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you're a more introverted person and hold it tight, I'm gonna come to the extroverted person in a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but if you're, if you're trying to, you know, and just in community in general, and maybe you're wanting to move beyond, you know, kind of hiding behind it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or like, maybe you have new understanding today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's some questions you can ask yourself or maybe ask the spirit to illuminate first, how set in my ways am I, like, do I love my routines more than I love people?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second.
Caesar Kalinowski:Could I be hiding my selfishness behind the term introvert?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm, I'm not here to answer 'em for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, third, do I plan for times of recharging alone after being with lots of people, you know, how could I improve on this so as to better enjoy, you know, social time.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's just intentionality there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do I believe God has made me both in his image, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like Jesus and.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uniquely and then it's really good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because some people I've heard say like, I wish I wasn't so introverted.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I wish I was an extrovert like you, or flip it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't stand extroverts, you know, I don't like being one like on, but, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, oh, you're, you're made in the image of God, like Christ and it's good.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, but it's understanding what's the truth behind it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, fifth, how does God want to use me with my introversion?
Caesar Kalinowski:In the lives of others, in the community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And ask that question.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ask yourself that great question because it's not gonna be the same as somebody else.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sixth, do I regularly seek the spirit when trying to decide how often I'll be in community and involved with others?
Caesar Kalinowski:I. I've heard people say like, well, I can't do the whole missional community thing because I'm an introvert.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, oh, please ask God what he has for your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause he definitely has community for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so we have to come from unbelief to belief, trust the spirit, go in his strength.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then seventh, do I prefer and or understand the value of going deeper with those few people that God may be calling me to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So remember, you don't always have to lead the band.
Caesar Kalinowski:But you do have a part to play.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Us loud.
Caesar Kalinowski:Extroverts really need you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:What would be the questions if you were an extrovert that you would ask yourself or even the Holy Spirit to illuminate for you?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Same thing, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:We've talked about there's issues on both and so here's a little heart check first.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, what's my true motivation for wanting to be with people?
Caesar Kalinowski:Especially if it's a lot, you know?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, is it to be a blessing and or get recharged, or is it to be the center of attention or maybe to be in charge?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm, hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Conviction falling here.
Caesar Kalinowski:No joke.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, second, could I be using my extroversion at times as an excuse to be sort of loud opinion and opinionated or seek to be in control of the situation?
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I'm a kinda loudest guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And loudest voice wins.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, third question.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do I believe that God has made me both in his image like Christ and uniquely?
Caesar Kalinowski:That it's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that I need others with different perspectives and gifts and giftings and personality types.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do I do.
Caesar Kalinowski:I believe that now as he's made me good.
Caesar Kalinowski:He is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Made them good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's look for that.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:How does that work?
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, fourth, do I regularly seek the spirit when trying to decide if I should be out in a crowd and mixing it up, or if it's a good time to speak up and maybe take charge or lead?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or is it a good time to use my abundant energy just to serve others and like see their gifts shine?
Caesar Kalinowski:I.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Make space for them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, because it's, you can use that gift and energy for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then fifth, do I understand that while I can easily draw a crowd or make friends more easily, perhaps as an extrovert, I need others who can come alongside me
Caesar Kalinowski:and be gentle with them and listen and kind of walk with them over the long haul.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do I understand that?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:So we really do need each other brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I believe that God, he, he knits our marriages together, um, our families, our communities, and churches with exactly the right types of people and
Caesar Kalinowski:personalities that he knows will most glorify himself and bless the most people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if we can see each other as image bearers, that's gonna be super valuable knowing that he has made us wonderfully.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he's, it's not an accident.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who we're married to and who we're in community with, there's, there's growth there and there's beauty there.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, one of the practices that I've tried to employ lately, like you said, is as Christians, we tend to do a terrible
Heath Hollensbe:job of really walking, uh, as listeners of the spirit in every avenue.
Heath Hollensbe:So for me, I'm a lot like what you mentioned, and I go to parties.
Heath Hollensbe:I like to be the loud voice.
Heath Hollensbe:I feel sometimes that.
Heath Hollensbe:Knowing my wife's not gonna be the most loud and vocal that I have to make up the conversation.
Heath Hollensbe:So it's been super helpful to, to, even as I'm showing up to a house and I'm at a party just going, spirit, would you lead me tonight throughout the evening?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, would you speak to me?
Heath Hollensbe:Would you tell me when I need to cool it when I need to?
Heath Hollensbe:So these are, I just questions that we can ask as we're sitting at home, but if we're led by the spirit in real time, go out and party in real time and
Heath Hollensbe:let the spirit speak to you and try to discern and listen and then, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Great.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So, uh, as we're finishing up, we always do the takeaway, the big three, which is the three things that people can take away from this episode.
Heath Hollensbe:Get started on right away.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it's awesome and you can get it for free by going to everyday disciple.com/big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Cesar, what are the top three takeaways you
Caesar Kalinowski:have for us this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, boom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:First, are you an introvert, an extrovert?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you sure?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, a self-awareness is a really good place to start.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's what I wanna do.
Caesar Kalinowski:If everybody will download these big three, I'm gonna include a link to a free personality assessment.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:Connected to Myers-Briggs.
Caesar Kalinowski:It only takes actually like a few minutes.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not crazy long.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like two minutes or three minutes to go through.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you'll get instant results.
Caesar Kalinowski:You don't have to pay anything or like wait for it to come.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you'll see where you fall on the extroversion to introversion scale.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause we're not, none of no one's like a hundred percent one thing and zero the other or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's gonna help you start to bear with others when you go like, oh.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm a whole lot more like that person than I thought, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So start by figuring that out.
Caesar Kalinowski:And even if you think you know it's free, go.
Caesar Kalinowski:So download the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Get the link.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second, plan your social schedule to allow you to recharge emotionally in ways that best suit you and your personality.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't hide behind your introversion or extroversion as excuses to not be with people or always be at the center.
Caesar Kalinowski:And a little advanced preparation for our heart and for recharging will open you up to new horizons.
Caesar Kalinowski:And really some new relational depth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then third, seek to actually build teams and build community with those who are different than yourself.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, 'cause we do need each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not like, well, I'll put up with you, I guess I'll figure out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Figure out a way to put you to use whoever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, no, be wiser than that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And say God's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:He only does what is good.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's made us unique and different.
Caesar Kalinowski:So seek to build teams with people different than yourself.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember, we need both introverts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Extroverts in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:So learn to be gracious and patient as you grow more accustomed to and appreciative of those differences.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well,
Heath Hollensbe:uh, I will take those three takeaways and I'm also gonna go home right now and apologize to my wife.
Heath Hollensbe:I being such a jerk.
Heath Hollensbe:I.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, and let me just say again if people want to, you know, interact with us around this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go to Facebook, search Up Everyday Disciple podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have a group there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And just, you know, ask to join.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll prove you and ask your questions there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jump in on community, talk to other people like, you know, bring, bring something to the, to the buffet.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'd be great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well that's it for today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really love being with you and I hope this has been helpful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Please share this with someone else.
Caesar Kalinowski:That you love and care about, share this with the people in your community.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause remember, we're, we're looking to have relational peace with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Jesus wants for us and freedom.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope you'll join us again next week.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll continue to talk about this lifestyle of discipleship and mission and how the gospel is really good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:For all of us now today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know you'll join us for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll look forward to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope you will too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember, you really can live with
Heath Hollensbe:the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.