Faith is Not a Product
We’ve all felt it — that restless sense that something’s missing, that maybe a better church would fix it. So we start shopping around. But here’s the thing: when we bring our consumer mindset with us, no new building or better band is going to solve what’s actually going on inside us.
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re going to dig into how consumerism creeps into our faith without us even noticing — and what Jesus actually says about it. This isn’t about guilt. It’s about finding something way better than anything you can shop for.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- A shockingly familiar definition of consumerism that will stop you cold
- 3 ways consumerism quietly shapes how you think about church
- What Jesus actually taught about consumerism and material desire
- Practical ways to stop feeding the consumer mindset in your own faith
From this episode:
“When we approach our Christian faith, experience and responsibilities as consumers rather than seeing it as an all-encompassing way of life, a lifestyle… and a fully interpretive set of beliefs and values, then our church and Christianity becomes just one more brand or product we consume along with Amazon, Apple, Starbucks, Facebook… and all too deeply, it’s how we express our identity too.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching and Mentorship in Missional Living by Caesar and his wife Tina
Resources for missional living and group training – Missio Publishing
The Gospel In Everyday Life Workshop Register Now FREE
Transcript
Here are three ways that consumerism can creep into our ways of thinking about the church.
Speaker:First one is the church has a drive-through.
Speaker:This person pulls up to the church when he is spiritually hungry.
Speaker:Uh, he orders exactly what he wants.
Speaker:You know, I better be right.
Speaker:Speedy and satisfying.
Speaker:Hey, I didn't order mustard with that.
Speaker:He comes to church demanding that it's, you know, every good and service that he wants.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And, and it's, and I only kind of go when it's convenient, if fits my schedule and if anything's ever messed up, you know, in my order, I off, I go, Hmm.
Speaker:And I'll make sure to, to leave a bad Yelp review.
Speaker:You know, can you believe it?
Speaker:This, look at this parking lot.
Speaker:It's so full.
Speaker:It's packed.
Speaker:I mean.
Speaker:We had a walk, like, like ever been to a Walmart or can you believe they didn't make me a deacon?
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Look at, I mean, come on.
Speaker:Like we've been giving and we're here, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Or I just, I we're outta here.
Speaker:I just wanted a m Mountain Bike Adventure Ministry funded by the church with all my best friends.
Speaker:Is that too much?
Speaker:You know, ask for?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So, and those people generally kind of just boying around between different churches trying to satisfy their.
Speaker:Current hunger for whatever, you know, better preaching or worship.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Or like a different community, like, I'm single so I need, you know, or I'm single again, or you know, some special ministry.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And they're actually not that committed.
Speaker:It's completely what's in, in for me.
Speaker:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Speaker:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Speaker:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Speaker:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Speaker:Hey, hey.
Speaker:Good to be with you again, my friend.
Speaker:Another week in the books.
Speaker:What's going on, man?
Speaker:Um, I don't know.
Speaker:Living the dream, loving life.
Speaker:Uh, here we are.
Speaker:Are you sitting your
Speaker:grandson?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not, not this moment.
Speaker:Maybe we'll have to have him on the show one of these days, but yeah, he's around a lot.
Speaker:Uh, little Patton.
Speaker:But no, it has been super beautiful here, man.
Speaker:Where we It's amazing live this week.
Speaker:It's amazing.
Speaker:I, I'm loving that.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I felt a really good energy lately.
Speaker:Like I just feel like, you know, you feel sometimes like you're just in the zone and yeah, things are
Speaker:firing
Speaker:God's really on the throne and you're acknowledging it.
Speaker:It's probably the good weather.
Speaker:It's, I think it has some of that out
Speaker:of that winter depression
Speaker:that, and I've been hydrating a little better lately.
Speaker:That could be it.
Speaker:Like I got, you know, a new app that's Drink your Water.
Speaker:I'm like,
Speaker:that's,
Speaker:but otherwise, no.
Speaker:But I'm excited.
Speaker:I just feel like generally excited about life and about today and about this episode and so yeah,
Speaker:there's some good stuff going on.
Speaker:Hey, before we jump into it, um.
Speaker:We wanna give a shout out to.
Speaker:One of the funny things, man, is, is how you say these guys usernames that leave us reviews.
Speaker:I think this is Newton fifth.
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Speaker:I think that a apple, apple must make you make something or your suggested username and it's like what?
Speaker:It's like, I don't know what that means.
Speaker:So
Speaker:you know who you are.
Speaker:Newton
Speaker:Newton.
Speaker:Newton says, so thankful for the Everyday Disciple Podcast is a person trying to navigate the waters of full-time ministry vocationally.
Speaker:That Everyday Disciple Podcast is a source of energy and refreshment every Monday morning.
Speaker:I thank God for the effort and energy put into the quality encouraging content from Caesar Heath.
Speaker:It's like a Monday morning Missional staff meeting with good friends.
Speaker:That's cool.
Speaker:Thanks for saying that.
Speaker:It is
Speaker:cool.
Speaker:I wonder how many.
Speaker:People working at churches need a Monday morning Missional staff like pump, you
Speaker:know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Little encouragement, right?
Speaker:Kick off your week with the podcast.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, uh, today we wanna talk about consumerism and being connected to the church and how it's affected church and ministry.
Speaker:Do you think it has.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:clearly it has.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and I don't think, I don't think anybody would say it hasn't.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I, we're not coming from a place of like, let's convince people, consumerism, it's part of the church, you know?
Speaker:So first off, let's just remind ourselves, all of us, well, we're the church.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So we, we can never poke the bride in that sense.
Speaker:Like, Hey, you know what's wrong with the church?
Speaker:Well, if you're a Christian, then that's you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So that's like saying, you know, what's wrong with me?
Speaker:I'm a, a consumer, you know, and I like treat everything like that.
Speaker:So, um, and I think consumerism, uh, these days, and I, you know, you say in the culture, you know, that's, sure, that's everybody but yourself.
Speaker:But I think cons, consumerism runs so deep and it's so normal, quote unquote in our lives these days that it's, it's actually hard to see it and pointed out.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things where it's like.
Speaker:I don't know if that's just consumerism or I just, I happen to get good deals on Amazon all day and night, and I like stuff coming like the same day, you know?
Speaker:Well, there's a little consumerism.
Speaker:They're banking on it.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Um, so it's, yeah, it's hard to even know that you're seeing it or doing it Right.
Speaker:And so it's kinda like that old school analogy.
Speaker:The two fish swing into fishbowl, and the one fish says the other fish, Hey man, how's the water?
Speaker:And the other fish goes, what's water?
Speaker:I'd never heard that
Speaker:because they're just in it, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's a little bit how consumerism feel I think it is these days.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Now, here's a, I think a very striking and helpful definition of consumerism.
Speaker:It says the protection or promotion of the interests of the consumers.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Those who consume, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, um.
Speaker:Interestingly, the word consumerism comes from the verb consume.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:No surprise.
Speaker:Which is rooted though the Latin word consum, which means to use up or to waste.
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:Now like that struck me because when I, I start thinking about consumerism connected to my faith.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Con consumerism connected to the church, capital C in the world.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:And how we operate.
Speaker:Um, and it's cons and everybody goes, yeah, there's consumerism.
Speaker:It means to use up or to waste.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I'm like, whoa, whoa.
Speaker:So, you know, is that how we see the church, which is, like I said, people, um, do we see the gospel and our Lord Jesus that way, like we're going to use it up and sure.
Speaker:Waste it.
Speaker:And I unfortunately That's fascinating, man.
Speaker:Like, it's like Yeah, sorta.
Speaker:And so, um, I think when we approach our Christian faith.
Speaker:And our experience, uh, and our responsibilities as consumers, rather than seeing this beautiful faith, this gospel, um, as an all-encompassing way of life, a lifestyle Hmm.
Speaker:And a fully interpretive set of beliefs and values.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Then our church and Christianity becomes just one more brand or product we consume along with Apple or Amazon or Starbucks or Facebook or, you know, and, and all too deeply.
Speaker:And this is where it gets really heavy.
Speaker:It's how we begin to express our identity too.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just like we do through the products we do, or the car we drive Sure.
Speaker:Or whatever, but also through like what we consume spiritually or like the goods and services our church offers or, yeah.
Speaker:Oh, we got the new building up right on the edge of town.
Speaker:Do you see that there?
Speaker:You know, so we are literally being consumed by our own consumerism.
Speaker:These days.
Speaker:And, and that includes spiritually?
Speaker:I think so, but you know what, if people are treating churches, um, like stores and malls, um, maybe it's because churches are acting like stores in the mall.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Sometimes it's hard to even differentiate.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like I've been at a couple churches where it's like, is this a Starbucks with really good TV system in a, in a live band?
Speaker:Because they actually have the Starbucks served there and it's like you're actually pulling people out of culture.
Speaker:You're like, Hey, don't, don't worry about gonna local coffee shop
Speaker:researching this.
Speaker:Uh, I saw some articles where the, the graphics in it, I thought, wait a minute, is that all those escalators and people, is that a, that's.
Speaker:That's the lobby of X, Y, Z church.
Speaker:I've been there.
Speaker:You know, or it's at the mall.
Speaker:Wait a minute.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:I know that you and I have both seen the ramifications of consumerism in our communities and even in the churches that we serve or have served.
Speaker:Uh, maybe you wouldn't mind taking a few moments, giving us some ways that consumerism might be sneaking in without us even noticing it.
Speaker:Where you see where maybe are you seeing it the most?
Speaker:Wow, that's, uh, yeah.
Speaker:Take a few moments.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, that's kind of the crux of it.
Speaker:Well, lemme say first I think there's the goods and services side of the consumerism.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Like, like just the way we treat it that way.
Speaker:And I'll, I'll, I'll dig that out a little bit.
Speaker:Um, but then there's also the second side, which I'll get to in a, in a minute, um, where it's like.
Speaker:The consumerism around the gospel and how we've even framed it and proclaim it and come to understand it.
Speaker:So that's really bad.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:First, the, the goods and services side here are three ways that consumerism can creep into our ways of thinking about the church.
Speaker:And I, and I like the way that, uh, blogger Justin, Carl broke this down, so, um, you know, I'm kind of, I'm riffing off of his, some of his speed here, but Sure.
Speaker:Um, first one is the church has a drive-through.
Speaker:This person pulls up to the church when he is spiritually hungry.
Speaker:Uh, he orders exactly what he wants.
Speaker:You know, I better be right.
Speaker:Speedy and satisfying.
Speaker:Um, hey, I didn't order mustard with that.
Speaker:Um, he comes to church demanding that it's, you know, every good and service that he wants.
Speaker:And, and it's, and I only kind of go when it's convenient.
Speaker:It fits my schedule.
Speaker:And if anything's ever messed up, you know, in my order, I off, I go, Hmm.
Speaker:And I'll make sure to, to leave a bad Yelp review.
Speaker:You know, like, you know, things like, can you believe it?
Speaker:This, look at this parking lot.
Speaker:It's so full.
Speaker:It's packed.
Speaker:I mean.
Speaker:We had a walk like, like you ever been to a Walmart?
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:Or can you believe they didn't make me a deacon?
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Look at, I mean, come on.
Speaker:Like we've been giving and we're here, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Or I just, I we're outta here.
Speaker:I just wanted a m Mountain Bike Adventure Ministry funded by the church with all my best friends.
Speaker:Is that too much?
Speaker:You know, ask for.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So, and those people generally kind of just boying around between church, you know, different churches trying to satisfy their current, you know, hunger for whatever, you know, better preaching or worship or like a different community, like, I'm single so I need, you know, or I'm single again, or, you know, some special ministry.
Speaker:And they're actually not that committed.
Speaker:They're, it's completely what do I self for me?
Speaker:So it's kind of church's drive through.
Speaker:So I thought that was a cool way of saying it.
Speaker:Second thing is, uh, church as garbage collector, you know.
Speaker:You know, like you.
Speaker:You put your garbage on the curb on a certain day each week, right?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:We did that yesterday.
Speaker:And then somebody comes, shows up and, and they, you know, they collect it, right?
Speaker:It's taken away and the truck takes it and speeds away and you just kinda hear the noise and that's how you know it happened.
Speaker:And you go get your can, right?
Speaker:Huh?
Speaker:And sometimes I think we, we treat church like the garbage collector.
Speaker:When a person has enough junk in their life, you know, and it's starting to smell.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And get nasty and other people notice it's piling up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Then, then, then we, you know, we drag that spiritual, emotional, relational garbage out to the curb.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And then we expect the church to pick it up and make it all go away, you know?
Speaker:And in some ways church is the place to bring your junk, being the church's people.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:But this kind of all take and no give.
Speaker:Sort of understanding of the church.
Speaker:'cause it's a family that's not what life in the kingdom's about.
Speaker:So we kind of are just thinking, you know, I go to the church and, and I think this mirrors how we treat God, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, like, Israel did this, you know, they went to God when they needed his help the rest of the time.
Speaker:Like, nah, I'm good.
Speaker:I got it.
Speaker:See you next time.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I think we start to treat the church that way.
Speaker:It's like, and you know, you know these people, right?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I haven't seen 'em in months.
Speaker:It's like, oh, the kid's sick.
Speaker:Oh, they're back.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, I'm horrified and I'm so sorry that their child's sick.
Speaker:But what's been going on in the last.
Speaker:Nine months.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They're
Speaker:filing for bankruptcy or they're talking about divorce.
Speaker:They can't stop fighting.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:So we
Speaker:see 'em back for a few minutes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And another, here's another third way that we sort of consumerize the church.
Speaker:We treat it like the tax man or like the IRS.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And you know, these people, this is a, this person, they're, they're a member of the church.
Speaker:You know, they've probably done the class signed up and he or she tithes their money and their time.
Speaker:When it works for them.
Speaker:So they're not a hundred percent consistent.
Speaker:You know, I forgot this month and then I went on vacation, but I'm not catching up.
Speaker:Don't worry about it.
Speaker:You know, um, they, you know, they agree with the sermons.
Speaker:Uh, they're, you know, they're stoked to follow the church on their Twitter account, you know, um, they even show up for sometimes, you know, men's retreat or this or that, right?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Sometimes, but it's kind of superficial.
Speaker:Their heart is really far from loving the church and loving the people and.
Speaker:Being consumed with like, you know, what God's done in my life and what he's doing in everybody else's life and what's, what does God want me to be a part of this and his blessing and all that.
Speaker:And they think secretly, I think they're like, I don't really need this, but it's what a good Christian like me does.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So
Speaker:that makes sense, man.
Speaker:I think that's sort of, you know, a kind of a fun way, kind of a poke a little bit, uh, in our chests of how we.
Speaker:Consumeristic treat the church from a goods and services standpoint.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:it does make a lot of sense.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But, but then there's the more ominous sort of hideous side of it.
Speaker:Okay, let's go there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Within the church.
Speaker:And it's where we actually let consumerism shape our relationship with Jesus.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And how the gospel's presented and taught.
Speaker:And I think this is probably what led to the other stuff, like sure, like a false little tiny consumeristic me focused gospel, you know, that the church is serving up is, that's our, that's our prime product is the gospel.
Speaker:You know, like, but if we do it like, like we're a malt, well then it's no re no.
Speaker:Uh, you know, no wonder people treat us like a malt, so.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So let me ask, is the gospel say a prayer, you know, and really mean it, and then all your dreams will come true.
Speaker:Joy, peace, intimacy, happiness, prosperity.
Speaker:Like a Disney movie.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is that right?
Speaker:Like, is that what the Gospel is?
Speaker:Like, Hey, you know, and we've all seen it before.
Speaker:You know, you know, the guy that wa walks into the worship gathering, maybe this, you're listening today, and it's like, oh, this, I, I met this guy this weekend again.
Speaker:He walks into the worship gathering, his life's fallen apart, and he has no real meaningful relationships.
Speaker:Kind of blown all that.
Speaker:And, and he's given his life maybe over to abusive substances.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Substance abuse and all his life sucks.
Speaker:And he comes to your community, comes to your church service, uh, because he's got nowhere else to go.
Speaker:Maybe, uh, maybe there's something there.
Speaker:He's looking for something, uh, and he begins to reveal the horrible hell that he's been living through, and he knows his life's going nowhere and that it, that's when we finally speak up.
Speaker:We go say this prayer and you'll be saved.
Speaker:And he may continue living like hell, but at least he won't die in hell.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And we feel, you know, we pat ourselves in the back, we check the box, another one.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And he, this guy can't believe it's so simple.
Speaker:He can't believe it's so easy and it's quick.
Speaker:It's so quick.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And he jumps at the opportunity.
Speaker:'cause like I said, he's gotten other opportunities.
Speaker:He feels like, you know, his life is hell.
Speaker:It's kinda like the bogo, you know, the buy one, get one free offers.
Speaker:Get the premium.
Speaker:You know, like I want what I want and I want it now.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But is that the true gospel?
Speaker:Not at all, man.
Speaker:Or, or is, or is the gospel actually about an ongoing relationship with God and his son, Jesus and his family, where you experience your needs met through the dying to self.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And participating in a new life, the life that God always intended for you through living in community and giving yourself away.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not on your preference, not on, you know, but on God's and on the needs of others around you.
Speaker:And then receiving something of great value, something true and precious that has already been bought for you.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Already paid for, you know, by God
Speaker:it's taken care of.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not trying to temporarily get warm fuzzies through stuff.
Speaker:And programs are the coolest worship experience and best band.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:See, I think Keith, that consumerism like that.
Speaker:Leaves us starving because it's false.
Speaker:It's counterfeit.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I
Speaker:agree.
Speaker:And it's a cheap filling of our sort of spiritual stomachs and or our attention at the moment, you know?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I don't know, maybe it's like people that are quote Christians, but then they'll go off for a year or two crazy into end time stuff.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Or they'll go crazy off into like.
Speaker:Deep forms of meditation almost, you know, hinging on, whoa.
Speaker:I think that's laying out of the God.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:Because they're always sort of the itching ear syndrome.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And you know, we try and fulfill, fulfill all of life's most basic needs and desires with everything and anything but God or the latest version of it, you know?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:And in ways that, and and choosing our own preferences and timing and commitment.
Speaker:But I just wanna remind us, Jesus already came and he is deeply committed and his ways are higher than ours.
Speaker:And you know, think about it, the essence of sin is actually replacing of God's ways for our own ways.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Think back to the garden.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Goes Yeah.
Speaker:Back to Adam and
Speaker:evil.
Speaker:So whenever we start to replace what God wanted to fulfill in our lives with everything else, even if it's churchy stuff, but not him, his life, his community, his family, we, we end up starving.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah, you're right ma'am.
Speaker:Even as you're talking, I'm, you know, we've started, so one of the aspects of the show that I really love is that we try to get people to think more about the thing behind the thing.
Speaker:Not just the, you know, not just like, oh, I've got blisters on my skin, I gotta fix that.
Speaker:That's bad.
Speaker:There's something else going on underneath.
Speaker:And as you're talking here, I'm starting to see some kind of common currents.
Speaker:A white might be going on as the thing behind the thing.
Speaker:What do you think it is?
Speaker:I mean, selfishness is the thing that, that first comes to my mind.
Speaker:Like, you know, it's, it's that I need to be pleased.
Speaker:I need
Speaker:love of self.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Which is, okay.
Speaker:So love of self is behind consumerism of every kind.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Be it, be it like, you know, I, every two years, even before the lease is up, I get a new car.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:I'm always worst deal after worst deal.
Speaker:'cause I've never paid off the last one and I'm just signing up for the next one.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's love of self.
Speaker:It's, it's that immediate gratification.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's so foreign in the sense of, um, I was just reading this book the other day about.
Speaker:How important the community is throughout the history of the church, especially in a, in an eastern lens.
Speaker:We tend to do stuff so individualistically here that it's mm-hmm.
Speaker:I'll take care of this.
Speaker:Um, which, which plays into last point of like, well, you have a hurting person come into your church.
Speaker:And I even know churches that go, to be honest, we only help those who are members.
Speaker:So though you might be hurting, like you've gotta go through three months of membership classes and then we'll have a little bit of money allotted to you that we can actually help you with to make sure you're not taking advantage of the church.
Speaker:Uh, and so this individualism is just
Speaker:taking advantage of the church.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like how's that?
Speaker:I've heard it though.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm not,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:You know what it's like, look, so yeah.
Speaker:I I do think that self-serving, yeah, that self-serving side of it is one of the things behind the thing.
Speaker:Is there anything else that might be going on that you, you think?
Speaker:I think another thing Heath behind consumerism is that I actually know what's best for me.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And I, I can't, I can't and I don't wanna wait.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:As soon as I see what might.
Speaker:Fulfill, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That hunger, that thirst, that itch, that pain, whatever, you know?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Boom.
Speaker:I'm going after it.
Speaker:There's no like, well, what I wonder what God thinks, or let me bring this to community.
Speaker:There's no, there's there again, like you're saying that that self, um, fulfillment thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like, I need to, I need to do it.
Speaker:I, I'm always surprised at, um, and, and probably like you're saying like we have such a westernized sort of me only.
Speaker:Gospel and a me, it's about me and my needs.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Understanding of church and personal faith and a personal, you know, walk with God and all, you know, that we don't think communal and so people don't ever stop to think like, Hey, I have this need.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I'll bring it to my family, I'll bring it to my community.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Nope.
Speaker:I'll just solve it, you know, and I want it now.
Speaker:And I, and, and I remember this
Speaker:is a form of pride in this, you know.
Speaker:It is because you believe you're your own God.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You have to be your own provision.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And we, you know, you look back to like the temptations of Christ out in the wilderness.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:After he's baptized in the spirit and the spirit falls on him and he's led by the spirit, empowered by the spirit, that temptation comes right away.
Speaker:Why don't you take these rocks and turn 'em into loaves of bread and feed yourself well?
Speaker:What's going on there?
Speaker:Be your own provision.
Speaker:Don't wait.
Speaker:Don't wait on God's timing.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:It's exactly what's going on there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the, his identities tracked, uh, attacked.
Speaker:If you're God's son.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I, and I think that we don't see ourselves as God sees us and that's a, a family and we have very individualistic, selfish, you know, desires in life.
Speaker:And I think that the gospel we've been sold and told and reinforced mm-hmm.
Speaker:Is the whole personal nature of it and private nature of it.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:And just say a prayer and, you know, personal decision, all that, I think it's fed right into it.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And so it shouldn't be a surprise then when people say, well, I'll be a part of your church.
Speaker:Based on goods and services, because that's how I came into the kingdom.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Or I think I did.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Well, a lot of times too when you ask like, Hey, uh, what led you to join our church?
Speaker:It was like, well, it really fits the needs of our kids, really fits the needs of my family.
Speaker:Rather than boom, this mindset of,
Speaker:I saw, I saw last summer when you guys put out all those slides and that whole waterpark thing right out in front of the road.
Speaker:And I thought, man, that looks like a lot of fun.
Speaker:My kids kept asking to go like, when can we go there?
Speaker:I'm like, well, you don't even, it's a church, honey.
Speaker:He is like, well, can't we go to church?
Speaker:Like, I guess we can, you know, they got slides, you know?
Speaker:So how do you think that, uh, now there was, have you seen those?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:How do you think that we can go about, now that we've addressed it, what do you think the best ways to maybe recognize consumerism in a community setting and address it even further?
Speaker:Does it really go back to, I'm thinking of like Philippians two three that says, do nothing outta selfish ambition or vain conceit, but rather in humility, value others above yourself.
Speaker:Is that a good launching pad for us?
Speaker:Uh, it is.
Speaker:Obviously that's a beautiful, you know, Paul speaking in Philippians there like.
Speaker:Don't do, don't do anything outta self ambition there.
Speaker:I think he's talking about how you address others.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:But even personally, it, it's right on because are you, what is, what's your self selfish ambition?
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:But, um, how do you recognize it?
Speaker:Well, let's say, let's start with how do you recognize it in yourself?
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:How do you recognize it yourself?
Speaker:Well, um, I jump around to a lot of churches.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I've been to a lot.
Speaker:Um, I've been wounded by a whole lot of churches.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Unquote.
Speaker:Really, I just didn't get what I wanted.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:right.
Speaker:I leave,
Speaker:I leave when I disagree with what the pastor's saying.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and I can remember as a young Disciple, um, and people were leaving the church and coming and going, and I loved the pastors, you know, and the pastor and all, um.
Speaker:They weren't perfect and all that, but I remember thinking to myself, you know, there's two things.
Speaker:There's two choices here, always within the church.
Speaker:Um, maybe I'm right and they're wrong.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Uh, maybe, uh, they're right and I'm wrong, but if I leave and Boeing outta here to the next, you know, better looking option, so to speak
Speaker:mm-hmm.
Speaker:I'll never know and, and get corrected if I was in fact wrong.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And if they were.
Speaker:Yeah, if I don't stick around to kinda lovingly walk through that and then eventually go, oh, see now they're seeing the way of that, and now we're, we're a stronger family for it, then they won't get the benefit, nor will the rest of the family either.
Speaker:So just balancing out never is the answer.
Speaker:And you always are gonna take that baggage with you to the next place.
Speaker:Like if you bounce out, you're taking, you're taking your
Speaker:next church.
Speaker:In fact, that's how you even choose your next place.
Speaker:Oh, they're good on that one.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's like people that, you know, they that politically vote one issue.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's like, oh, pretty, pretty small minded, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so I think you can recognize it in yourself.
Speaker:I'm like, am I bouncing around a lot to a lot of churches?
Speaker:Um, how do I speak about my church?
Speaker:Do I speak about it?
Speaker:A product.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Like, you wanna recognize it?
Speaker:How do, how do myself and other people talk about it?
Speaker:Like, do we talk about like, oh my gosh, the gospel transforming this and this person's whole life is transformed.
Speaker:And they, you know, when they were doing that, there was so much just like, God, didn't it look just like Jesus, like on earth here with us, like living out through, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Or do we talk about it like it's a building.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:It's a store.
Speaker:It's a mall.
Speaker:Do we talk about primarily the programming?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Do we talk about I'm running late for the service, you know, like, I gotta get serviced, I gotta get my oil changed.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Tires are rotated, whatever.
Speaker:You know, how do we talk about the church?
Speaker:Do we talk about it like in familial language or do we talk about in goods and services?
Speaker:Um, so that's from a personal standpoint, right?
Speaker:There again, going back to, um, you know, going back to maybe how we first came to the gospel, I, I love what Hugh Halter and Matt s may wrote in the tangible Kingdom primer.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Which is we've talked about in different episodes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, you know, it's a, it's a tool for in community kind of moving out of consumerism and moving more into incarnation ministry Yeah.
Speaker:As a small group.
Speaker:But they say this, it's, it's pretty cool.
Speaker:They say the great theologian, Sheryl Crow, uh, sings this line.
Speaker:It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And when it comes to consumerism, she's got it just about right.
Speaker:They say consumerism is that belief that happiness comes from getting what we want or think we need instead of caring about the needs of others.
Speaker:And this perspective causes us to focus primarily on our own happiness.
Speaker:In fact, one of the main barriers to communion with Christ is our consumerism.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Consumerism turns our focus back on ourselves and our own desires and reverses the flow away from mission.
Speaker:But ideally.
Speaker:As we enter into true communion with Christ, we are naturally drawn into mission.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So I love that.
Speaker:Thanks.
Speaker:Cheryll Crow.
Speaker:Thanks Cheryl.
Speaker:Those guys.
Speaker:You know, so that's, that's some of what's going on in our own heart.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Um, and, and the truth is God's called us as his family, as his kids to the exact opposite of consumerism.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:He's called us just like his son, Jesus, to sacrificial love.
Speaker:It's when we lose our life, we gain it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Luke 17.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Now as for the church and, and, and recognizing their own consumerism, so if you're listening today, you're like, I work in a church and I don't think we're all that consumeristic.
Speaker:I mean sure we got nice stuff, but I don't know if we're leading with it.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Um, you know, church Capital C, the organization.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:That's what I'm talking about here.
Speaker:So tomSchultz@holysoup.com, he says this and it's really helpful.
Speaker:He says, rather than emphasizing a consumption model for worship.
Speaker:The relational church becomes much more participatory.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So that's what we're saying is like seeing the church as family relational back and forth.
Speaker:Give and take.
Speaker:It's not just consumption, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So rather than, uh, seeding competition and comparisons, the relational church looks to cooperate with all who share our common desire to see people grow in the relationship with the Lord.
Speaker:And I think the public, you know, weary of church's competitive spirits, find any open cooperation among Christians to be really attractive.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Another thing is, rather than calculating numbers, relational churches relate narratives.
Speaker:That's good.
Speaker:Rather than citing statistics, they tell stories.
Speaker:Stories of life.
Speaker:Life on life.
Speaker:Transformation, sacrifice.
Speaker:People living their life looking just like Jesus, who is the glory of the Father.
Speaker:That's, that's their stock and trade versus square footage.
Speaker:The numbers they're running on Sunday giving.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All that attendance, giving the three Bs, all that stuff we've talked about.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:And so think, think participation, think cooperation, and, and think in story.
Speaker:Well.
Speaker:I have to imagine that Jesus had something to say about consumerism and addressing that throughout scripture.
Speaker:And I know that even Acts two seems to be the antithesis of consumerism,
Speaker:the way they lived.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just kinda this communal everything.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:In the pot.
Speaker:Uh, is that really for us today?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Nothing's changed in that sense, right?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Um, and Jesus does address it.
Speaker:He not, he doesn't use the word consumerism.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um, and, and I think to.
Speaker:To, to look though and where do we find him addressing?
Speaker:It's like there, I think there's a difference between materialism and consumerism.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:But I think consumerism, this, you know, this using up, you know Sure.
Speaker:For myself, um, can lead to materialism, which is the tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort is more important than spiritual values.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Jesus spoke a lot about that.
Speaker:So our consumerism leads to like all the stuff I want.
Speaker:Both in life and in the church, and I start to place more value on the stuff than the giver of the stuff.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so, uh, he talked about that a lot.
Speaker:You know, it's like first Timothy, you know, for, we brought nothing into the world.
Speaker:We can take nothing out of it, but if we have food and clothing, we should be content.
Speaker:So he's saying like, Hey, what are you chasing after?
Speaker:Um, Ecclesiastes, whoever loves money never has enough.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Whoever loves wealth is never satisfied.
Speaker:So that's stuff.
Speaker:And you can even put that with like church stuff.
Speaker:It's like, well I used to be at this really quaint church and it was great and the people were awesome and all, but then this, they built this new building across the street like, wow, there's slides and you know, um, he says in Matthew six, don't store up treasures for yourself on earth.
Speaker:Because that's all gonna get destroyed.
Speaker:You can't take it with you anyway.
Speaker:But store up treasures in heaven, meaning invest your life in people and in the gospel.
Speaker:'cause that's gonna be there when you get there.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And on and on and on it goes.
Speaker:So I think Jesus deals with materialism, which comes from the heart of consumerism.
Speaker:It's a me first thing, and it's this replacing of all the things that God designed you to need and want and desire.
Speaker:With him being the fulfillment, with stuff of your own choosing and now, and your timing and right back to the garden, you know, where I want what I want now, and don't keep anything from me.
Speaker:So
Speaker:yeah, man, that's a lot of, uh,
Speaker:helpful techniques.
Speaker:That's still now, right?
Speaker:That's still, yeah, that's still for us today to consider and believe what Jesus says there.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:Let's, uh, move on to the big three.
Speaker:As you know, if you've.
Speaker:Been an active listener, even if it's your first time.
Speaker:What the big three is, is it's the three takeaways we'd love for you to walk away with just right now, and you can get 'em for free by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Speaker:Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Speaker:Okay, first one, you're created, needy, and, and you need Jesus, not his stuff.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:God
Speaker:desires to be the fulfillment and focus of all your needs and desires, so trust God in his timing and.
Speaker:Lean not on your own understanding, like it says in Proverbs three, five, and, and your own ability to grab cheap imitations.
Speaker:He has proven his love and his willingness to come to you by sending Jesus to provide the life that he's always wanted for us.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You're created needy.
Speaker:You need Jesus.
Speaker:He's, he's the, he's the real.
Speaker:He's the better.
Speaker:Well, second thing is the, the true Gospel, a big gospel, the actual gospel pushes back consumerism in your life.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:You, you no longer need.
Speaker:To chase after false imitations or things that will not satisfy in the long run.
Speaker:And, and you have nothing to prove or earn through stacking up your stuff.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:In Christ, you have something of great value, something true and precious that, like we said earlier, has already been bought for you.
Speaker:Through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
Speaker:So chase that truth.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Not, you know, not to prove anything to God, but like, make that the center of your focus in life.
Speaker:Grab a hold of that good news and drink deeply.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And let the Holy Spirit move you from unbelief to belief concerning what are my true needs?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In a community's question, asking, you know, spiritually in the preaching, you know, in the children's ministry, building with the slides or not, do I, you know what?
Speaker:Let the spirit guide you.
Speaker:And then third, trust God for your church and where he's placed you.
Speaker:Don't treat your church like a vending machine.
Speaker:You know, primarily dropping in a few coins to get goods and services out.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:And ask God to show you why you're a part of this community, like it's not an accident.
Speaker:And, and then ask him how he wants.
Speaker:To use you to show his love and provision to others.
Speaker:Hmm, man, those are three helpful things we can get on right now.
Speaker:Uh, thanks for
Speaker:thought.
Speaker:The three
Speaker:takeaway, right?
Speaker:There's nothing else.
Speaker:Don't miss those.
Speaker:Yeah, so you, again, you can get those for free by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Speaker:We'll get those to you immediately.
Speaker:Along with other stuff like we're starting to add in, like additional videos and additional trainings and downloads.
Speaker:We're trying to pack the big three.
Speaker:Not only that will you get in your download, but also some other goodies.
Speaker:Yeah, and maybe we can even throw in the link to the tangible kingdom primer, which we read from in this episode here.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Hey, um.
Speaker:Join us next week as we talk about a community that Caesar and I have started, uh, called Cigars in Theology.
Speaker:It's a fun weekend kind of event where we bring some drinks and have some cigars and
Speaker:some people are thinking like cigars in theology.
Speaker:Those two don't go together, so we're gonna, we're gonna talk about some, uh, some sort of normalized and unconventional ways of discipleship and, uh, community building.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And even leadership development that won't be for everybody.
Speaker:Necessarily Sure.
Speaker:But maybe should be for more people than not.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So come, come and we'll talk about that and how people can get started with all that and it'll you be, but it's gonna be really fun.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Bring a cigar if you want.
Speaker:Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com.
Speaker:And remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.