Patriotism vs. Christian Nationalism and the Trump Effect
Love him or hate him, Donald Trump has become one of the most polarizing figures of our time. And a big issue for pastors and church leaders is this: how much are our people being discipled by politics instead of Jesus?
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’ll step back from the headlines and look at what Scripture says about authority, leadership, and the Kingdom. If we’re not careful, political loyalties can shape our churches more than gospel priorities. This conversation will help you shepherd your people toward living as citizens of God’s eternal Kingdom, above and beyond party lines.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- Why God allows leaders to rise—even the ones we disagree with.
- How Scripture reframes our view of government and authority.
- Ways to re-center identity and allegiance in the Kingdom of God.
- How to guide your people toward love and peacemaking in political conversations.
From this episode:
“It is super important to remember that Jesus’ Kingdom stands above America and every nation of the earth. It is set apart and is an internal kingdom. One day, America and all its presidents will be a footnote in history, but God’s Kingdom will never end.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
The Gospel In Everyday Life Workshop Register Now FREE
Coaching and Mentorship in Missional Living by Caesar and his wife Tina
Resources for missional living and group training – Missio Publishing
Get Caesar’s latest book: Bigger Gospel for FREE… Click here.
Transcript
So I'd say I consider myself a patriot.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:In as much as I am grateful for this country and that I get to live in this country, sure I am.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm grateful to the men and the women who've given their lives to secure this freedom and the liberties that me and my family enjoy.
Caesar Kalinowski:The fact we can get on the air and do a podcast, do whatever we want to do, say what we wanna say.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want that to end.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll say, I'm proud of many of the things that Americans in the last couple hundred years have accomplished in the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And my hope is that this country can become even more generous movement of good in the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Patriotism's all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, I think where it becomes nationalism, quote unquote, is when we begin to find our identity in all of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:When our identity and our value and our worldview is primarily shaped by the fact that we're Americans.
Heath Hollensbe:America.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:America.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and we believe our country's the best.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's always right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we should win at everything, at all costs.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's nationalism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Donald Trump, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're a wow, a polarizing figure for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're dropping bombs right here at the beginning of the show.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're, you, you pulled out the T word.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're jumping in strong.
Caesar Kalinowski:The T word, the Donald.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my gosh.
Caesar Kalinowski:The, maybe the most powerful man they say in the world at this point in time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is that true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you think that's, I heard it, I guess.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, many would say that the last X amount of American presidents, maybe for a hundred years or so, at least, have been the most powerful individuals in the planet.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Donald Trump, man, we're uh, wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:A polarizing figure for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, definitely that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, we're gonna talk about.
Caesar Kalinowski:This today, we're gonna talk about Trump today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but this isn't gonna go probably where people think it might.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:We will answer the question that you just asked.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, is Donald Trump killing the church or saving it?
Caesar Kalinowski:We will, we will answer that, but we're gonna take this.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think maybe to some places people aren't, you know, like used to thinking about these things.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I wanna say right up front, no one likes talking politics.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:But here we are doing it anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:And religion on a kinda a religious podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's like, here we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:What else?
Caesar Kalinowski:What else can we, jumping in strong?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What can we kick?
Caesar Kalinowski:But I'll say this, I, in this last election, I, I vote, I'm a voter.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was, I, it's a privilege, I think, and so people can read into who I, they think I voted for.
Caesar Kalinowski:Probably not who you think.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, but I just say that's not even where I want to go today.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I do want to address, I think some pretty important issues here.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And I think it's important too, to reference, if you're kind of looking more of how we should talk about politics back on episode 1 0 7 when we talked about how to be a, how to talk about politics without being a polarizing jerk.
Heath Hollensbe:You go as a topic.
Heath Hollensbe:Go.
Heath Hollensbe:This might be like part two of that in some degree.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:But uh, but you could start there.
Heath Hollensbe:1 0 7 is a good episode to bounce back to, if you want to hear kind of how we should talk about politics is a follower of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:I feel like the last couple weeks I've spent more time in the car than I. Usually do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's the only place I hear talk radio.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I don't even, I don't even think I own a radio in my house.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, but I, because of that and I generally listen to talk radio, just, I dunno, I find for long drives dialogue Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Holds my interest better than the same songs every hour and a half or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I've kind of spun around the dial and it's amazing how it doesn't almost matter what the talk show's about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Somehow it's about Trump.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's killing everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's saving everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there's doesn't seem to be any middle ground.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's either far left or far right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's even more so than I thought.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause I've had to start, I've had to start sort of, uh, limiting how much news media on TV I watch.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause it's just crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then I was, it's snuck up on me in the car.
Caesar Kalinowski:So anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's get, let's dive in on this a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, Donald Trump, it's funny you say that because like we've said, he's a very polarizing figure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I would say if I was to divide, divide my Facebook friends in half, half of them would say that he was the savior of America and the free world, and the other half would say that he's probably the antichrist incarnate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ooh, strongly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we have to believe at the very least that he has been placed in his position of authority by God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Correct?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I think so.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, I, okay, so there, there's the, the, the de facto.
Caesar Kalinowski:Scripture that that always gets quoted.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I'm gonna quote it though because it's a great starting and jumping off point there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think here is Romans 13, and I'm gonna, I'm just gonna read a chunk of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's, it's the beginning of the chapter.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's verses one through four.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But there'll be a lot of nuggets in here, I think for us to kind of Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Grow out of here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so the Apostle Paul here is talking to both Jews.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And gentiles not non-Jewish people, but maybe they're believers and he's, he's kind of speaking to the church in this book, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, it's a young church just getting started, otherwise Paul wouldn't have been writing about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's what he, here's what he says in light of this topic.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, Romans 13 verses one through four.
Caesar Kalinowski:He goes, let everyone be subject to the governing authorities for there's no authority except that which God has established.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's pretty clear.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not too gray there.
Caesar Kalinowski:The authorities that exist have been established by God, verse two.
Caesar Kalinowski:Consequently.
Caesar Kalinowski:So in other words, pay attention.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted or put in place, in other words.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's kinda what you're saying is did God place him there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, according to Paul, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And of course he's talking about Roman rule here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it was horrible.
Caesar Kalinowski:To be, you know, Jew under Roman rule at the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, so going on it says, and, and, um, so whoever rebels against authorities rebelling against what God has instituted and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now it doesn't say, depending on which side you're on, it's weird, like Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you rebel against God, you bring judgment on yourself.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus says something very similar to that, doesn't he?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Verse three For rulers, hold no terror for those who do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But for those who do wrong, do you wanna be free from fear?
Caesar Kalinowski:The one in authority, then do what is right and you'll be commended.
Caesar Kalinowski:It means it'll go well for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, verse four, for the one in authority is God's servant for your good.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if you do wrong, be afraid for rulers.
Caesar Kalinowski:Rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.
Caesar Kalinowski:Meaning rulers do have power and they wield it.
Caesar Kalinowski:They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Caesar Kalinowski:I kind of wish that last bit was left off.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was kind of tracking like, okay, you know, sovereign god sure places people in power and it's ultimately to do is good, but then, you know, you lost me at the agents of wrath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're like, wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which means that sometimes they're gonna do things that are punishing evildoers and wrongdoers in the world and, but because of we're humans, we may not see it or agree with it that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's weird.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think many Christians accept this basic idea that God has placed all government and authority in place Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ultimately to accomplish his will.
Caesar Kalinowski:But there's seems to be considerable disagreement on what constitutes an evil doer and how such moral authority.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or civic authority should be used.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because that's part of why we have wars.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Our side is a hundred percent sure that we're in the right, they're the evil doers and they're writing the same thing from the other direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Publishing it in another language or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, but, but check this out, Romans 12 and 13 'cause there's, there's like that, that was right at the beginning of 13.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Paul's kind of setting up like something in 12.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not about our right to self-defense or responding to evil.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really not the point of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's about how Christians have an obligation to obey authorities, even if these authorities aren't explicitly Christian.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is a big huge, but notice how what he is saying to both Jews and Gentiles here is sandwiched between.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something so big, the call to love.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so I mean, let me just, let me just roll some up.
Caesar Kalinowski:All additional scripture on here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So right before he said all that stuff that I just read in Romans 13 about submitting to that, that authority, that God's place there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, check it out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just a, just a cursory glance to Romans 12.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love and action.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love.
Caesar Kalinowski:Must be sincere.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hate what's evil.
Caesar Kalinowski:Clinging to what's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Be devoted to one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, bless those who persecute you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Bless and do not curse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't, don't be proud, but be willing to associate with people who are lower than you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't be conceited.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't repay anyone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Evil for evil, on and on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love your enemy.
Caesar Kalinowski:If your enemy's hungry, feed him.
Caesar Kalinowski:If he's thirsty, give him something to drink.
Caesar Kalinowski:In doing this, you'll heap burning coals in.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's this, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huge call to how the church, how we are to live.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's love your enemy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then when you get to 13.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then it's that let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, da, da, da.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're there 'cause God put 'em there and they can be agents of wrath.
Caesar Kalinowski:Guess what follows that right after what I read, law fulfills the law.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Love one another for whoever loves others, has actually fulfilled the law.
Caesar Kalinowski:So then you know, oh, that's what he's meaning about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Keep the laws and you won't bring judgment upon yourself if your focus is loving everyone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not focused on, well, who's an authority and do I agree with God or not?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's really what's going on there.
Caesar Kalinowski:If your focus is on the command to love you fulfill the law, there's no condemnation for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Paul is encouraging us to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Geez.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that I've never looked at it that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:So those verses get quoted all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so it's like, well, there he is.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's God's.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's God's man for the job.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:She's God's man for the job.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, yes, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:But look at you, you mean.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we put all those breaks in there and then chapter breaks and all.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's one big letter.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is a little tree of like, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Submit to authority.
Caesar Kalinowski:As part of how you fulfill the law, which is to love your enemies and love everyone and if they're hungry, feed 'em and all that Never says anything about dropping bombs on 'em or, yeah, and I interesting how we, we tend to package like even the second Chronicles seven 14, like white people who are calling and we take all this prayer and it's because we prayed that Trump's in office and we're so glad that he's.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know God's man for this job, and you're going like, I've definitely placed there, but this is on us to actually love one another and to fulfill the life.
Caesar Kalinowski:So regardless of which side of the political aisle you're on and how much you love or hate, our current leadership, Trump included, that is a very strong.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a charge to us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Charge to us there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, and I, it's, oh, it's so powerful.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause it's just wrapped up in a big love sandwich.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:As you were saying, this is even a bigger issue at hand for the church because I think it has to do with ultimately our true citizenship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I would love to talk about that a little bit, um, because we are citizens of a different kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've got a different ruler.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's king Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We do.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how, how do we go, go ahead.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how we, how we respect a leader of the country we live in.
Caesar Kalinowski:While ultimately remembering and bowing to serve a greater king.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What does that look like?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because that's what, that's what Paul's talking about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, respect those leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just remember the greater law that you're fulfilling here, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's talk about that a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I wanna start by defining a little bit of what, what nationalism is, patriotism is, and also what, like what you were just talking about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Our true citizenship is God's family.
Caesar Kalinowski:A family that has a king that we serve and.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who will rule eternally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not just for four years or two terms.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And justly and uh, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So he's the greatest king.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'd say I consider myself a patriot.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:In as much as I am grateful.
Caesar Kalinowski:For this country and that I get to live in this country.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm grateful to the men and the women who've given their lives to secure this freedom and the liberties that me and my family enjoy.
Caesar Kalinowski:The fact we can get on the air and do a podcast, do whatever we wanna do, say what we wanna say.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want that to end.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll say, I'm proud of many of the things that Americans in the last couple hundred years have accomplished in the world.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And my hope is that this country can become even more generous movement of good in the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Patriotism's all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, I think where it becomes nationalism, quote unquote, is when we begin to find our identity in all of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Our identity and our value and our worldview is primarily shaped by the fact that we're Americans.
Heath Hollensbe:America.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:America.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and we believe our country's the best and it's always right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we should win at everything, at all costs.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's nationalism.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's at times very dangerous.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think it's really small for us, Christians to see ourselves that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like your dad is king of the universe and he's made you a part of his forever family and your citizenship is not here and and you're gonna like limit it to this one little viewpoint.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause maybe your taxes got raised or you, you know, they changed your bus route for your kids, or you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Locally, it's like, what?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think that's actually really interesting nationalism, it seems like would be the conversations of.
Caesar Kalinowski:When we talk about refugees or walls and we're going like, man, are we really refugees?
Caesar Kalinowski:Was Jesus a refugee nationalism?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is that keep everyone out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Protect us.
Caesar Kalinowski:We win us first.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Better economy.
Caesar Kalinowski:America, that's very different than patriotism, isn't it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And neither have very little to do with citizenship and our ultimate identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's, you know, for any longtime listeners know, I'm gonna bring this stuff back to our identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think.
Caesar Kalinowski:That being an American, it's great, but being the kingdom of God is so much bigger and better and eternal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Look, look at scripture says in Matthew six, seek the kingdom of God above all else and live righteously.
Caesar Kalinowski:That means rightly with God, and he'll give you everything you need.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's how you get the things in this life that you want, need and desire, rightly righteously.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is by seeking the kingdom of God for that citizenship, not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Nationalism.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That doesn't mean you can't be like, I'm, you know, I'm proud of our country, or I'm pulling for it, or I'm pushing on it, but my identity's not found in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And scripture teaches that we're not ultimately citizens of this world that's so small.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:But that we're citizens of God's other worldly kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:And Jesus said that the kingdom of God's here.
Heath Hollensbe:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's now, and it, this is, this is powerful.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's within us.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not an external kingdom made up of stuff and property and bombs and politics.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Paul says in Philippians three, but our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's su super important to remember that Jesus' kingdom stands above America.
Caesar Kalinowski:If God, if grace is God, put all authority in place in.
Caesar Kalinowski:National ways, in country ways, but it all sits below his authority.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Jesus kingdom stands above, you know America, that's where you and I live.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know we've got listeners all over the world, but wherever You're from Norway, you're from Sweden, you're from Australia.
Caesar Kalinowski:Australia, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's Jesus Kingdom stands above all that government.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause He put it in place, it's set apart his, his is eternal.
Caesar Kalinowski:And one day America and other nations and all their presidents and rulers will just be a footnote in history.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's kingdom will never end.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's good news, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's really good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what it sounds like you're saying is that ultimately Trump isn't doing either, he's not killing or saving the church because the church is eternal.
Caesar Kalinowski:The church is eternal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's, and it trump's 'cause we're talking about him today, his rule, his authority, the way he'll get used.
Caesar Kalinowski:All placed under God's ultimate sovereign 40 rule.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:It'd be like someone way on the totem pole is not, doesn't get to usurp the ultimate plans of a sovereign, powerful God.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so ultimately Trump can't either kill or save the church, the president, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, 'cause we are the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But lemme just say this sort of side note parent, the president has the civil authority to protect the United States.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or whatever nation you're from, but we're talking about Trump here, and no one disputes that.
Caesar Kalinowski:But the Bible does not give this president or any other president moral authority over us.
Caesar Kalinowski:The president's ultimately subjective and answers to God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, I mean, let's not rush past that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So he's got a civic authority, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But he does not have a moral authority that that's not given to him by God, and it doesn't sit under God's authority.
Caesar Kalinowski:Authority of the President falls under God's authority and serves the people who elected him.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that includes many of God's family on the earth.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here in America, the church that's us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:But our king and our kingdom and our ultimate citizenship dictates our ultimate loyalty and where we get our true identity from and therefore, our own moral authority in how we treat people.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like Paul Exor, the Christians, is to love and treat enemies like friends.
Caesar Kalinowski:And live like Jesus did.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So does that mean that as Christians we don't really need to worry about what Trump or any other political, or governmental leaders do?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think that's what you're saying.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not saying that that, that, that's not like stick your head in the sand and then don't worry about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, just kind of wait for heaven kind of thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think heavens come here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Scripture teaches that the kingdom is now, the kingdom is has come Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:In Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we need to realign our true identity and our citizenship with the goals of God.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Heath Hollensbe:' Caesar Kalinowski: cause if you, if you claim God as your king, Jesus is your king, the part of his kingdom, that's your citizenship, then you exist and you desire to live your life ultimately for his goals.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Heath Hollensbe:And his objectives.
Heath Hollensbe:So.
Heath Hollensbe:That, that's how we have to start.
Heath Hollensbe:That's how we have to start.
Heath Hollensbe:So it do I just like go like, well, I'm not, I'm just not gonna watch the news anymore.
Heath Hollensbe:I'm not gonna listen talk.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:I'm gonna forget about No.
Heath Hollensbe:Um, here's a few things I was thinking about.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Heath Hollensbe:Start by praying about the things that you're concerned about or that are ticking you off.
Heath Hollensbe:Ask God to give you the mind of Christ on that issue.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not the mind of whoever on talk radio left or right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, start there.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause I'll be honest with you, I can very easily see something on the news and go like, yeah, that's not right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That bugs me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then flick over to the other, you know, another channel like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wait a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:That makes sense.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So start by praying about these things that you have concern with the issues, and ask God to give you the mind of Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:And maybe this sounds trite, but please, please pray for the leaders in our country.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Both those you agree with and those that you can't stand.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, it's hard to hate someone that you regularly pray for.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I know half right now, half the people listening are like, I hate Trump.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can't stand Trump.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So wherever they're at that there's probably 50% at least right now, going Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's where I sit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Have you prayed for that man?
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:To have wisdom to, to have the mind of God, to, to be patient, to, to sit under the authority that placed him there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, and I'll tell you what, when, when you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Pray for someone regularly.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's pretty hard to hate 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:It kind of sandpapers your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and here's the thing, if you actually hate your leaders, like if you're just honest with yourself, you hate, you have hate in your heart for them and speak horribly about them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, Jesus says you're a a guilty of murder.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is heavy.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's pretty heavy.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't wanna say that's bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as far as I know, Trump and all of our current Senate and Congress right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Have never murdered anyone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like your Probably be worse.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know that we're gonna get people writing us and sending us articles.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're like, yeah, these people.
Caesar Kalinowski:But yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:What I, my point is we are not to be murderers, we're not to be haters.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're we're, we're called to see the kingdom of God in our ultimate sin, sin ship, and God's glory as primary.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so if God in his sovereignty has chosen to put those leaders there back to Romans 13, then to hate on them.
Caesar Kalinowski:And just be anti everything about it is really to say, God, your choice kind of sucked.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we don't wanna be that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact we don't.
Caesar Kalinowski:We don't need to.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we get to be differently.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to believe our identity and our citizenship and that, that all that governmental authority sits under that moral authority of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good man.
Caesar Kalinowski:I even know we have a mutual friend that is involved in local politics 'cause he believes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the kingdom come and he wants to be part of that, and he's going, Hey, salt to the earth.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll start locally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I'll, I'll get on city council and I'll serve here because I can actually start bringing about kingdom impact in the here and now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I think it's, I think it's imperative that Christians are involved in politics, both local, regional, national.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, uh, we're running outta time, so let's get to the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as you know, if you're a listener of the show, the big three are three takeaways, practical that we'd love for you to walk away with right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some tips, some, some things that we really wanna get to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your head, your heart, your hands about, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Trying to help us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Action items.
Caesar Kalinowski:What do we need to believe?
Caesar Kalinowski:What do we need to think about?
Caesar Kalinowski:What?
Caesar Kalinowski:What can we start doing?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get those for free.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can get the download by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Again, that's everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Caesar, what would you say the big three for this week are?
Caesar Kalinowski:I wonder if I didn't say them, if more people would go to download and appear.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, just go find it, an experiment.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go find it, and then you'll get to know.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna share 'em because we always do.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, um, the reason we have 'em as a free download is because these are sort of like, Hey, if you take anything away from this, take this away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you kinda wanna share the essence of this episode with people, um, this would be a good talking points thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you download that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first I'd say.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's important to remember that all authorities under God's sovereign rule in rain.
Caesar Kalinowski:So whether we agree with or love, or really dislike our national leaders, God is ultimately sovereign and accomplishing his purposes.
Caesar Kalinowski:He really is.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm,
Caesar Kalinowski:and establishing his glory throughout the world.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's been doing that throughout all of history.
Caesar Kalinowski:You really need to remember that, so that that's sort of the divine.
Caesar Kalinowski:Take a deep breath.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And remember who's largely in charge.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Second, realign your citizenship and your true identity under god's loving and sovereign and internal rule.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:The kingdom of God is, remember, it's, it's entered.
Caesar Kalinowski:By being born of God's own spirit, that's how we enter the kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how we obtain that forever citizenship in the kingdom of God, and it's obtained not by political correctness or military might, and no politician or elected official can ever separate you from God's love.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or from his forever family.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so cool, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:I need to be reminded of that.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Third, kind of the hands thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start to speak love and peacemaking into every political conversation you have.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get to pray daily for your leaders to have wisdom, to seek peace in this really broken world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, along with that, vote your conscience as, as a privilege of being a part of this country or whatever country you're a citizen of.
Caesar Kalinowski:You have a voice, and hopefully you'll use it in light of your father's heart and his kingdom, and the examples given to us by his son Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, those are fantastic.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks for those.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, so download those.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, one thing we wanna do is invite you to be part of this conversation on Facebook.
Heath Hollensbe:All you gotta do, go to the search bar and type an Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:We'll approve you, let you into the group where we try to have conversation and
Caesar Kalinowski:if you think like, oh, these guys are just having a conversation, Caesar and Heath, it'd be cool to just talk to those guys someday or have a coffee of beer with 'em or something like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, well that's sort of how you get to on Facebook right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And uh, maybe someday we should just call one of our listeners and include 'em in the show.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.