Leading With a Missional Mindset: 10 Ways to Stay Focused
The word “missional” isn’t outdated or irrelevant. It still means living with a radical focus on making disciples of Jesus in everyday life—our unchanging mission as the church.
This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re tackling the distractions that pull leaders away from a true “missional mindset.” We’ll explore why a consistent discipleship focus matters, especially if you’re a pastor or leading a missional community.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- How your view of the gospel shapes your mindset and focus.
- Why discipleship is not something just preached about on Sunday.
- 10 ways people with a missional mindset live and lead.
- How our language impacts what others think Christianity is about.
From this episode:
“People with a missional mindset are careful to use language that makes sense to normal people and helps to reinforce the mission of disciple-making, rather than sound like a seminary class or using a special language about the gospel that almost no one else can replicate in normal life with others. And they seek to have their preaching fuel discipleship–not behavioral modification. In fact, their preaching and services are all a part of discipleship and equipping for the same.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
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Thanks for Listening!
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching on Disciple-making and Missional Living with Caesar & Tina
Missio Publishing – More Missional Books and Resources
Caesar Kalinowski’s Website and Blog with Loads of Resources
Transcript
People with a missional mindset are careful to use language that makes sense to normal people, and it helps to reinforce the mission of disciple making, rather than sound like a seminary class or using special language about the gospel that almost no one else sitting there hearing this can replicate in normal life with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and they seek to have their preaching fuel discipleship, not behavioral modification.
Caesar Kalinowski:And in fact, their preaching and everything going on in Sunday service are all part of discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:and equipping people for more of the same, making disciples.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Cesar Kalanowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey Heath, what's going on today, my friend?
Caesar Kalinowski:Another day living the dream, man, living the dream.
Heath Hollensbe:We, uh, we were just talking offline about this.
Heath Hollensbe:We actually were watching the same thing on Netflix, but at different, you know, like I watch Netflix 23 hours a day.
Heath Hollensbe:No, I was kidding, but we both watch this show on Netflix with Wim Hof, who's like this Dutch.
Heath Hollensbe:I think he's Dutch, like a freak of
Caesar Kalinowski:nature.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is, by the way, uh, the views and opinions expressed about Wim Hof are not that of our, you know, parent company, us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we're not, this isn't an endorsement.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of freaky anyway, but yeah, there's this Dutch guy, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Wim Hof.
Caesar Kalinowski:He holds all these crazy Guinness Book of World Records for like longest holding his breath longest underwater Longest like in cold environments all this stuff and he's got this process for how you like hyperventilate yourself and then jump in like ice water and it in it like he never Gets sick.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one gets sick all these people who do it like they just love it and I'm like, yeah, so I'm like really and so the other day I'm like Hey, I, I haven't done it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know how to do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a whole process breathing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, um, but I'm like, let me just, let me just go ahead.
Caesar Kalinowski:When I get done with the shower, I'm just gonna whip it to full cold and see how long I've done that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Stand it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I hate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I hate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here, here's my new record.
Caesar Kalinowski:about six seconds Yeah, but as long as it took me to reach back up and turn the thing off completely or back to warm It was so
Heath Hollensbe:like back in 2007 Hoff set a world record for the fastest half marathon barefoot on ice and snow With the time of two hours six.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, yeah There's
Caesar Kalinowski:stuff on YouTube of this guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's he's like Got all these people that pay him crazy money and they're marching through, like, this frozen tundra in their swimsuits.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's it, nothing else.
Caesar Kalinowski:He does Snoga.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yoga in the snow, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Snoga, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anyway, enough of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:No one's
Heath Hollensbe:tuned in to hear that, so Hey, so a couple episodes back We talked about how, and also why, so many leaders who say that they've tried starting missional communities never actually really did start one.
Heath Hollensbe:Right, they didn't.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, they tried religious activities and maybe their schedule got really busy.
Heath Hollensbe:But, but I know some people and leaders These days have stopped using the term missional altogether because there are people failed at it and they don't want to bring that up again It's like, you know PTSD.
Heath Hollensbe:It's like a dirty word.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, but today you want to talk a little bit about having what you call a Missional mindset.
Heath Hollensbe:So let's let's get into that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, great You know, you're right though.
Caesar Kalinowski:The word missional is it gets banded around and I even have like peers, you know Other people who are considered thought leaders within the industry, you know, or within the church, I guess a better word Um, who's like, ah, missional's dead.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't use that word anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whatever, you know, it's not a dirty word.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think it's actually out of vogue or gone away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and it, it's always meant and missional still means today living radically focused on the mission that Jesus gave us of discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Making more to be in and making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what it means to be missional, not, it doesn't mean getting people to say a special prayer and come to our church services, but missional living is a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's living with a lifestyle of discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:And for a church to understand and have a priority and focus on disciple making in everything they do, that would be a missional church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now Here's the thing though, regardless of what anyone in particular wants to call it, because I don't really care if we use the term mission or not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not a word that Jesus used, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not gonna find a mission on the Bible, but we get to use it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to reference things in that way because Jesus did give us a mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that's where it comes from anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't really care what we call it, but I do want to talk about having, I'm going to use the word, a missional mindset.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you could call it a discipleship mindset or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the importance of that, especially if you're a pastor or leading a community group, and I would say even just even leading your family, because from experience, having a missional mindset with.
Caesar Kalinowski:Us and our kids, and even like, we just got a, we just got a call from one of the folks we're, you know, coaching right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and they were like, you know, this and this, and this just happened.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then our kids said, Hey, can we go serve them too?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then how about them?
Caesar Kalinowski:And they said, this was not our lifestyle before.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh really?
Caesar Kalinowski:We never would've.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:That would've never happened.
Caesar Kalinowski:We just wanted you guys to know, wow, the way we live now and the way our kids embrace it, that's all because of our time spent with you guys.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's praise God for that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So,
Heath Hollensbe:so when we're talking about like a missional mindset.
Heath Hollensbe:Um, are you suggesting that mindset is a, is similar to like a worldview or is it a different type of perspective?
Heath Hollensbe:How would you clarify
Caesar Kalinowski:that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I think so.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, what is the framework you use or the lenses you look through in life as you make decisions or set budgets and your calendar or, in this case, equip and train others?
Caesar Kalinowski:What gets said and done?
Caesar Kalinowski:When the church gets together, you have a mindset or a worldview that you look at to determine those things.
Caesar Kalinowski:What is encouraged when the church gets together or when the church scatters back out into everyday life?
Caesar Kalinowski:All of that naturally flows from the worldview, perspective, or mindset that we all hold.
Caesar Kalinowski:So then we all have something.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, having a missional mindset is not something that most of us were taught or modeled.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not growing up in our homes, certainly not mine.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, or even in the church I grew up in or in seminary, they never talked about it unless I did, you know, seriously, like they just didn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then it was like, I went to seminary, like sort of at the beginning and sort of early days of missional stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we were actually planting.
Caesar Kalinowski:missional churches, Selma communities, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, but most of us have not really grown up in that, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:We have mostly been given a church growth strategy mindset or a get everyone saved mindset or something like that, but not this idea of a missional mindset, meaning, you know what, I'm going to look at everything in life and how I lead others.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how we lead this church and how our family time is spent in budgets, all that stuff through the lens, the mindset of like living on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's what we've been given.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Jesus has called us to.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's not like we punch a clock and it's an hour to a week or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:I wonder if it's best if we lay out some of what's this missional mindset is and how having an, and also leading from that perspective actually changes things.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, let's do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And again, let's remember that, you know, all this is having a mindset that's focused on the mission Jesus gave us, making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Of him teaching them all that I've taught you and how to live in these ways, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, that's what this is all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:So please hear all this through that lens.
Caesar Kalinowski:People who have this type of mindset, that's the lens they live with.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think that's my lens.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, and not perfectly, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I know it isn't right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and I'll give you 10 things about people with a missional mindset.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but there could be a whole lot more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and this, this aren't necessarily in any kind of perfect or particular order, but this will get people thinking like, do, do I have a missional mindset or how could I have a more missional mindset?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So people and leaders with a missional mindset and discipleship focus.
Caesar Kalinowski:First thing I see is they hold a priority in their own lives and families as being a living example of what it looks like and how exactly one lives as a disciple and makes more disciples of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:They hold that as a priority for themselves.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, they know that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's got to start with
Heath Hollensbe:you, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they know that discipleship is not something just preached about for those in the seats to go and try to figure out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So having a missional mindset starts sort of in the mirror and at the kitchen table.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're absolutely right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Otherwise, it's like, no, I go to work and I do, I do ministry.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, but it's, you know, it's hard to put missional on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's another one.
Caesar Kalinowski:A person with a missional mindset does not like bifurcate or separate their lives into two parts, spiritual and everything else, or ministry.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's my real life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like they're not separating these two things, living like what we call with spiritual schizophrenia, but they, they radically reorient their lives around the mission and reason we were created and saved.
Caesar Kalinowski:Making more disciples of Jesus, but they're not seeing that as like something they sort of put on and put off Yep, or I do it sometimes but not because it's if mad remember it's a mindset So I'm at a restaurant and I'm thinking like I'm trying to help people move from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know this person I'm not gonna get to like probably I don't know, you know, walk with them for years and years.
Caesar Kalinowski:Could be that God's got that, but I do want to, I do want to see God glorified in this.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like, I'm going to prefer them over myself.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to like give them a hand.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe I'll buy, you know, buy the coffee, the person behind me in line or whatever, you know, I want to, I want to tip so radically that people are like, what in the hay, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That all flows from having a missional mindset.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's good.
Heath Hollensbe:And I like reorienting your lives.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, it's, it's not like you said, it's not.
Heath Hollensbe:This isn't something that's super difficult.
Heath Hollensbe:It's actually the normal everyday rhythms of life that you're just being intentional of trying to move people from belief to unbelief or unbelief
Caesar Kalinowski:to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was like, well, man, radically reorient my life around something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, think about you've done this before.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've radically reoriented our lives around.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, becoming an adult, you know, uh, getting married, you radically reorient your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Having kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, people who all of a sudden.
Caesar Kalinowski:Career change.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, career change.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've radically reoriented my life to driving an hour now, you know, a day or whatever in each direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, um, if you're living with pain or sickness, you have, I've had to radically reorient my life around this because I can't do what I used to do or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we do it all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:We do it all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:But a person with a missional mindset does that around.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, personal dimensional mindset and a discipleship focus make time for people over programs and activity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, big.
Caesar Kalinowski:They even schedule time with people and neighbors and people of peace and their community and other leaders, meaning I'm not going to try to fit it in.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, when I can serendipitously, but I'm actually put it in my calendar cause it's a priority.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, I'm living through that lens.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so you know what, you know what goes on your calendar, important stuff, stuff you care about.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want to miss that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something that matters.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I put all kinds of stuff on my calendar because I don't trust myself to not get like shiny object syndrome, you know, like I literally for years I had on my calendar pray for Tina every morning I just put it on there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to think I would.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, but guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes I don't remember.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like, it's important to me, put it on my calendar, stuff like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Same with like, I'm going to pray what's next Lord for people of peace in my life, for the neighbors.
Caesar Kalinowski:So people that have a missional mindset, they actually prioritize that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:People over programs and activities and then you can see it in their schedule.
Caesar Kalinowski:They could see it in their life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's reflected in their time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's another one.
Caesar Kalinowski:A missional mindset, a person with a missional mindset is careful to use language that makes sense to normal people and it helps to reinforce the mission of disciple making.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Rather than, you know, they sound like A seminary class walking around or they're using a special language about the gospel that almost no one else understands or could, or maybe they understand you now, but they couldn't replicate that in normal life with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they, and they seek to have their preaching, if that's part of their role in life, fuel discipleship, not just behavioral modification.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:The preaching and everything about their Sunday services are all part of discipleship and mission and equipping people for the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, while you're talking about this, uh, can we, can we talk about, it's kind of a throw in here, but you've got this new coaching opportunity too that would, would go perfectly with this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks.
Caesar Kalinowski:I appreciate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause it is my sort of passion and heart right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:We got this, this thing called the Everyday Disciple Makers going on now and it's like a cohort together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, um, it includes private accountability coaching, group coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get daily access to me and Tina and a group of other discipleship practitioners and people that are, you know, doing what you want to do or live, they're already living the life you want to live.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, um, you get a private roadmap and yeah, there's.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want to get into all the technical stuff, but, you know, when you're wondering like, well, how would I live with this mindset?
Caesar Kalinowski:We can help you with that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or even when I focus that way, I really don't know how to speak to people about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to teach you how to speak about the gospel and actually speak good news that sounds like good news to people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, you know, I'm all in, but my, my spouse is not, or I don't know how to lead my kids in this, you know, or it won't work in my setting.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whatever the things you'd go like, well, probably not.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna help you solve that and we really can so yeah Yeah, thanks for asking.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's not a ton of slots because we give so much of our time People have literally daily access to us.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think the only thing would be better is they'd be coming and living here You know what you're welcome to do
Heath Hollensbe:But if you want information, you can get that by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash coaching.
Heath Hollensbe:And if nothing else, just get on a phone call with you and see if it, if it makes sense.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Check out the information, drop me a little bit of your info and, uh, just let me know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I like to hop on a call and talk about it and let's do, that's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number five.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's keep going.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:A missional mindset is always looking for how we reproduce ourselves and what we've, you know, and what we've learned and believe.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to produce that into the lives of others.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then it helps others actually function that way too.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's not just, I want to make sure I teach people, but I want to make sure that they're actually passing that on.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I see that showing up in their family.
Caesar Kalinowski:I see that show up in their kids, in their missional community, in their small group.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I see it going out, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And a person with a missional mindset seeks to develop leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Among them, rather than hiring people from the outside to come in and do a job, quote unquote.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:A job that Jesus actually called all of us to enjoy and employ.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I can tell like someone who's like got a missional mindset because they're raising up leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're taking normal people full of the same spirit, the power that raised Christians to the dead, and they're pouring into them and, and, and seeing that's their selves replicated in those people instead of just going like, well, let's get online and hire that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's business.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not God's family.
Caesar Kalinowski:Raise them up from within.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number six.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, people with missional mindset stay clearly focused on the one true mission, making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and this is over and against attendance and buildings and budgets, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:The three B's, butts and buildings and budgets.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and what they, they count and actually measure and monitor different things.
Caesar Kalinowski:Different things look like success to them, like the number of disciples being made, the amount of people now starting to walk in the ways of Jesus as they're coming to faith in him.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Gospel fluency on the rise and growing, uh, the number of relationships that are being made amongst the people in the body with not yet believers so that the gospel is now leaking into all kinds of people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you can go and check out an episode we did called, Is Your Church Successful?
Caesar Kalinowski:New Benchmarks.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that'll give you a whole bunch of like other things that a missional leader or missional church would actually start to measure instead of just, you know, attendance and buildings and budgets and all that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So missional minded people and leaders, that's, they, they focus on different kinds of measurements of success even.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I, I believe that, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, number seven.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number seven, a missional mindset in a person is always looking for who we can send.
Caesar Kalinowski:Versus how many people we can attract.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh interesting.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:How many people are we sending out to start new communities that are multiplying and turning into new congregations?
Caesar Kalinowski:How many people are we sending out to even other countries or cities?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because we've watched their lives and we've poured into them and we've seen them make disciples who make disciples and multiply community instead of just thinking man, I I'm keeping them and I wish I had five more, you know, it's like we're sending them.
Caesar Kalinowski:So they're a missional mindset at persons is way more focused on sending than attracting.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alrighty.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number eight, um, person with a missional mindset, um, or they're willing to thin the crowd.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, once in a while, meaning like they'll, they're willing to focus on the people who are like yeast in the dough, giving their best time and attention to those people who are longing and hungering for Jesus and His glory, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And they want to see that expand in their own lives and families and others.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that's who they spend their time with.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's, they're not worried about like, I got to get everybody on board or we can't do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and, and they're not even worried about maybe.
Caesar Kalinowski:stronger challenges that thin the crowd and, and I, you know, I hate to say this, but I see it all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:People with a missional mindset and leaders and pastors who are leading this way, they usually do thin the crowd.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:They usually see their, their numbers initially kind of come down.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because people don't want to be challenged to actually live this way, you know.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, what's funny too is we always look at like, I mean, I've worked in many churches and you have too, and it's always like, well, healthy things grow, healthy things grow.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, but there's also pruning, which is a cutting back, which is essential to, to flourishing.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So sometimes that has to happen.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, uh, that might look like.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I don't think these elders are actually on board with making disciples, you know, like maybe we, these aren't the elders to lead the mission or, you know, like you're only giving your time to like a handful of people.
Caesar Kalinowski:It seems like intentionally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like Jesus did.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what about these people who aren't into this whole discipleship as a lifestyle thing?
Caesar Kalinowski:Listen, the more we pour into people who are that I call them like the yeasty people, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the yeast in the dough, the more people that we have then amongst the dough that are yeast, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to see more growth actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:A missional mind in person gets that and they're not afraid of thinking, well, some people are leaving, they don't like it, get, they give their self and they give their best efforts and attention and emotional energy and all that to multiplying the few who will multiply a few more.
Caesar Kalinowski:And listen, you're going to get to exponential growth that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:You really, really will.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And it, you know, I would say too, though.
Heath Hollensbe:This doesn't always look the best when you're doing like forecasting of church growth and it might actually feel even a little counterintuitive on the surface.
Heath Hollensbe:It does.
Heath Hollensbe:But focus on fewer people to actually reach and transform more people and then the multiplication, the 2 becomes the 4 to the 8 to the 16 rather than just adding 1 or 2 here and there.
Heath Hollensbe:It's crazy, I'm all,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, like small is big, slow is fast, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the book I wrote.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:The third line of that that didn't fit on the cover so the publisher wouldn't put it on there is, is multiplication wins.
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Small is big, slow is fast, but multiplication wins every time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like if you multiply yourself, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Every time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number nine, a person with a missional mindset is continually growing in their own gospel fluency and they hold a high value for helping others do the same as they are.
Caesar Kalinowski:Together, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So they're together moving from unbelief to belief in the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that means they're letting their own growth and, and unbelief and weirdness and fears show, and they're showing how the gospel's replacing all that with grace and good news, and, and they hold a really high value in helping others learn that language too.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so good.
Caesar Kalinowski:A person with a missional mindset.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not, it's not due to be like we've talked about.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not just do, do, do, do more, do more, do more.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it's like, let's let the good news replace all that fear and weirdness and all.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so a person with a missional mindset knows that and they get after it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a priority.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:The last one, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Last one.
Caesar Kalinowski:There could be so many more, but a person with a missional mindset looks to have people around them that are different than them.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not just, I'm, you know, Affinity Club, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Because
Caesar Kalinowski:they, they really believe that together we're the body of Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's how disciples become mature, not just hanging out with me, not one to one with that old buck in the church, but no, you can't actually make mature disciples unless it happens in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember, no one of us are Jesus alone.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a body.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're the body.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so people with a missional mindset look to develop and share leadership with people who aren't just like them, including they're looking for, who are the apostles?
Caesar Kalinowski:Apostles, who are the prophets, who are the evangelist shepherds and teachers, you know, Ephesians four stuff, right among us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't fear those people.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't marginalize them because maybe I'm just one of those.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe I'm really into the teaching thing, or I'm, I'm really, you know, into soul care or, or whatever it would be.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Knowing that this is how Jesus intended and gifted his church to function across all those gifts.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how we grow to maturity.
Caesar Kalinowski:A mission, a person with a missional mindset, they, they accept that and the fact they embrace it, they go for it.
Heath Hollensbe:They're
Caesar Kalinowski:not just looking to build a crowd of, you know, yes men and women who lead just like them and love what everything they say and they're happy with the status quo.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:They don't run off the prophets and apostles among the family, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:They embrace that because Jesus said, these are the gifts that are going to help us grow to maturity and unity.
Caesar Kalinowski:And health and vitality and all those things we want for our churches.
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah, there you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's there's 10.
Caesar Kalinowski:Woo.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it, man There could be probably a hundred more but
Heath Hollensbe:and i'm sure this feels like a firehose to people So if you're like, I need to go back and and and listen to that again, uh Don't worry, like you can go back, take your time working
Caesar Kalinowski:through it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And again, you know, like I'd love to help you with this stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, don't stay stuck.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't just make no choice.
Caesar Kalinowski:Making no choice to make a change is making a choice, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you, you know, if you're interested and want to learn more about the Everyday Disciplemaker's coaching and you want to walk with us Get some personal sort of one on one and group time and get, grow in your gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:Learn how to help motivate your own people to live on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:Learn how to start modeling this as a family.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe you and a couple other couples.
Caesar Kalinowski:We do like a pilot group program where like, you know, like a pastor and his wife and maybe a couple of their elders and their wives and maybe a single gal or single guy in the community.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll coach you all together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we'll incubate a group that then can replicate that and sort of wave that flag and model that within your church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like consider that, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:At
Caesar Kalinowski:least jump online with me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Learn more about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's get on a call.
Caesar Kalinowski:First step
Heath Hollensbe:is go to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash coaching.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:There you go.
Heath Hollensbe:I'd love to do that.
Heath Hollensbe:It's the passion of our lives.
Heath Hollensbe:Awesome, man.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, let's get to the big three for this week, because time's running out.
Heath Hollensbe:Yes.
Heath Hollensbe:As always, we want to leave you with the big three takeaways from today's topic.
Heath Hollensbe:If nothing else, things that we don't want you to miss.
Heath Hollensbe:And by the way, you can get a free printable PDF download of this week's big three by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, plus, um, you're gonna, you're gonna throw in also here on the, on the show notes, the 10 missional benchmarks, guide, test, and assessment.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, I'll throw a link to
Caesar Kalinowski:that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Awesome.
Heath Hollensbe:Right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:So we're giving a ton away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't miss these, if nothing else.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Though we may not have been raised or taught to have a missional mindset, it's something we can develop and pass on to others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Language creates culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So how do you speak about Jesus, his father, our father and the Holy Spirit?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, what do not yet believers who know you, what do they think Christianity in the church is all about?
Caesar Kalinowski:And when people look at your life, the life of your family, your marriage, the rhythms of your life and your priorities, do they see someone who has a missional mindset or do they see something else?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's good, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a great question to ask.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, you can hear the prophet coming out of me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm just calling people to this because man, Jesus gave his life that we'd get, that we would live it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number two, don't miss this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, Jesus came and lived amongst us and died in our place that we might once again, know his father, walk with him.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then lead others to do the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go back to the garden, that picture, walking in the cool of the day.
Caesar Kalinowski:God's restoring all things and people and places back to himself.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's a part of God's eternal purpose and plan to fill the world with his glory with himself through us living this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:All that happens as we radically reorient our lives around being and making disciples of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that'll never just happen sitting in a church building in rows once or twice a week for an hour.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not gonna.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's never gonna happen.
Heath Hollensbe:I've done it for years, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Most of us have.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:me too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Me too.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, here we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:Last but not least, um, listen to, and this is sort of the hands part of this, you know, I go head, heart, hands all the time with the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is sort of like, okay, here's how you get actionable.
Caesar Kalinowski:Listen to and discuss these 10 missional mindset perspectives with your spouse and or others that you lead, you know, with inside your church or community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, if you're on staff at a church, you're a pastor, listen to this, like, be bold, like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Listen to this episode and discuss this with some of your staff or your elders, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Where is your perspective, and therefore how you live, not in line with Jesus's, you know, one mission and purpose for all of us, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not saying, like, you can't force this to happen to yourself, but pick one or two things that jump out at you and ask the Holy Spirit to give you a new missional, Discipleship focus and perspective and the words and abilities to lead others into that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Please don't continue living with old and wrong perspectives that are not in line with Jesus mission and commands to us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus worldview and mission, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like just don't stay there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like don't say, well, that's what it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't know any better.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, please don't, you don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's live the life that God's called us to.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to, that's what we're about.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what we want to help people to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so,
Heath Hollensbe:and again, if people are listening right now, Man, I really need to take that next step.
Heath Hollensbe:It's worth just getting on a call with you and seeing if this Everyday Disciple Makers coaching is going to be a good fit for them.
Heath Hollensbe:And they can do that by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash coaching.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks, man.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for reminding me.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, time's up for today, but next week we're going to talk about how and why pastors can and should probably stop doing 80 percent of what you're doing today.
Heath Hollensbe:Whoa, if I'm a pastor, I'm like, whoa, sign me up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I want to stop doing 80 percent of what I'm doing.
Heath Hollensbe:We're
Caesar Kalinowski:gonna
Heath Hollensbe:give
Caesar Kalinowski:you some
Heath Hollensbe:tips.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we're gonna make it more about tips and tricks, but Yeah, man, again, maybe the prophet needs it's gonna be roaring again next week.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, the roaring prophet and secret Kalinowski
Caesar Kalinowski:The Angry Prpohet.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, I'm not angry.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show, and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.