Leading Missional Communities Without Falling Apart
Missional community life can be challenging to sustain, and leading one often feels even more complex. How do you know if you and a potential co-leader are truly aligned? What steps should you take to get started? Navigating these questions well can make all the difference in building a thriving, mission-focused community.
This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’ll help you determine who you should lead with and how to handle disagreements along the way. Whether you’re working with leaders you’ve developed over time or forming a brand-new team, we’ll explore the key principles that create strong, unified leadership in missional communities
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- What healthy missional community (MC) leadership looks like.
- The best ways to deal with conflict as leaders.
- Getting leaders on the same page as to “what the mission is”
- How practicing the 23 “one-anothers” from scripture is key to healthy leadership.
From this episode:
“God shows his grace on Earth through people, and leaders show others God’s grace and what it looks like to know and live out the good news of the Kingdom in every area of life. Your job in leading a missional community (or a church for that matter) is primarily that–not to be in charge and make all the decisions about what everyone else is supposed to do.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Everyday Disciple MAKERS Coaching
Get a free copy of Caesar’s book BIGGER GOSPEL and Learn to Speak the Good News of the Gospel Into Everyday Life! Click Here Now.
Missio Publishing – More Missional Books and Resources
In light of today’s topics, you might find these posts and videos helpful:
Transcript
You're a part of God's family.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're a family.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And everyone is important, but they're different.
Caesar Kalinowski:That means leaders too.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're important, but they might be different.
Caesar Kalinowski:People have different skills and perspectives, different experiences in life, giftings, maturity.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes people can lead and they might not be as true and mature as you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:They get to lead too.
Caesar Kalinowski:And God is aware of all of it and he has brought you together for just a time as this, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:For just such a time.
Caesar Kalinowski:So trust him to work out this beautiful tapestry, this beautiful mess, as it's been called sometimes, that is his family in your community.
Caesar Kalinowski:and among your leadership.
Caesar Kalinowski:If everybody does exactly the same, there's going to be huge voids in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think we've talked about apest giftings.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody's different, but they're all important.
Caesar Kalinowski:So trust God that this isn't an accident.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why are we here together?
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast, where you'll learn how to live with.
Heath Hollensbe:Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Heath Hollensbe:He, it's that time of year again, isn't it?
Heath Hollensbe:Da da dum, da da dum.
Heath Hollensbe:Chomp.
Heath Hollensbe:Da da dum, da da dum.
Heath Hollensbe:Chomp.
Heath Hollensbe:Da da dum, da da dum.
Heath Hollensbe:Superbowl.
Heath Hollensbe:Are you coming over for Superbowl?
Heath Hollensbe:What can I bring?
Heath Hollensbe:Bring it all, brother.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, like.
Heath Hollensbe:Carnivore up, bring some meat.
Heath Hollensbe:I should bring some meat.
Heath Hollensbe:I, uh, I do these jalapeno, bacon wrapped jalapenos that are kind of my go to party thing.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, I know you do.
Heath Hollensbe:People just eat them.
Heath Hollensbe:I'll take a hundred and they're gone within seconds, it feels like, so.
Heath Hollensbe:Anything bacon wrapped, brother.
Heath Hollensbe:I know.
Heath Hollensbe:Just wanna.
Heath Hollensbe:It's the way things are supposed to be.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to our new sponsor for the podcast, Bacon.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, you can, you can grill it and you can throw it on a salad.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, Hey man, today we're talking about missional community leadership.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it's
Caesar Kalinowski:uh, it's kind of a mystery, a weird, like who, no one wants to lead, everybody wants to lead, who should lead, how do we, how do we start, now how do we find who we should lead with, all that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Where, where, where did we get this, uh, this great idea?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, thanks for asking,
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar.
Heath Hollensbe:This show actually came from one of our listeners named Tara Gazzaway, and she said she'd love to hear about how missional community leadership comes together.
Heath Hollensbe:So this show goes out to her.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks, Tara.
Heath Hollensbe:Yes, thanks Tara for writing in.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, let's just jump into question number one, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, let's do it.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, I know you've led a good amount of missional communities over your, your decades.
Heath Hollensbe:As long as we've been trying.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, that's right.
Heath Hollensbe:It's been a while.
Heath Hollensbe:Have they always been awesome and did leaders always stay on the same page with you over time or was there ever?
Heath Hollensbe:Perfect.
Heath Hollensbe:Awesome.
Heath Hollensbe:Everything.
Heath Hollensbe:It's all worked out.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us this week on the Life.
Heath Hollensbe:School.
Heath Hollensbe:Podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll see you next week.
Caesar Kalinowski:It gets a good three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, they don't always go awesome in every way, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You remember the, the, the mission of a missional community is very nature is to make disciples and we've said it a zillion times.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is this process together of moving from unbelief.
Caesar Kalinowski:to belief concerning the gospel in every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which means for that to happen, you're running over some rough ground.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're running over and through all the problems of life and you're bumping up against preference and immaturities and wounds and stuff that happened in our childhood and other people's and a bad day.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And all these and sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:How about it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, yeah, the very, the very goal of a community is to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great that stuff's happening.
Caesar Kalinowski:So now we can look at it in light of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's good news there We don't have to just stay in the pile, you know done that we found ourself in so yeah in that sense Yeah, they go great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, all the missional communities.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've been a part of in leading they go great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Lots of stuff comes up It's a hassle, you know, yeah, but once you kind of flip that switch in your head to go, wait a minute And all those are exactly purpose, perfectly setting us up for moving from unbelief to belief in light of the gospel for that area, instead of just opinion or fighting about it or like semantical wrangling over scripture or, or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, so,
Heath Hollensbe:You know, I'm thinking even as you're just talking there is, is the missional communities that I've been most benefited by are the ones that you actually commit to doing it together through thick and thin because you're a family.
Heath Hollensbe:Right.
Heath Hollensbe:It's not the Brady bunch picture of leadership that everything's clean and pretty.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's why it fails for a lot of people, they're like, yeah, we tried it, it would never work.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ah, press in, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because, because if you come consumeristically.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're done.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're done.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're just done.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And yeah, if you take the approach of like, hey, I'm bouncing, this kind of work.
Heath Hollensbe:I want to learn
Caesar Kalinowski:how to live my life in light of the gospel in every area of life, and I'm going to do it with really messy, jacked up other people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some of them who will lead us, and they're imperfect too, then that's what you're signing
Heath Hollensbe:up for, so buckle up, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, and, and so it doesn't seem like the metric is always deciding the people that you.
Heath Hollensbe:have a perfect facade with, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Like this is people that you actually want to commit to doing life together.
Heath Hollensbe:So how do you determine, um, with, you know, potential person that you want to lead a missional community with that you're like minded enough to lead together?
Heath Hollensbe:Does it just come from experience or is this something that works itself out as a commitment to one another ultimately?
Heath Hollensbe:Well,
Caesar Kalinowski:I think, you know, it happens in all kinds of ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no one way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, I'll say that right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's just, there's not any one way.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've not, I don't think I've ever seen it happen twice the same way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like sort of, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, um, there are at least two roads we need to look at here.
Caesar Kalinowski:One, it's working with leaders that you've developed that are now going to lead with you.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes that's how it happens.
Caesar Kalinowski:How do you pick your leaders for missional community?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, some of them are people I've trained, and so now we're, as part of their growth is like, let them lead.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:We talk about mauling people, M A W L, model, assist, watch, and leave, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're going, hey, how do you know you got people that you want to lead with?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, because we trained them.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of like, I've said before, I love hanging out with my Now adult kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:They love all the same stuff that Tina and I do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, like down the line almost nearly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well guess why ? Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because we, we raised them, you know, we trained them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's kind of that way too, when you raise up leaders and you, if you've done a good job of discipling people to the point of maturity and leadership, you gotta let 'em lead.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, so that's one avenue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and we'll talk about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's the second one, and that's putting a team of people together, you know, or a few of you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:a group of leaders or maybe a few of you or other friends or folks in your church or your neighborhood And you're just you're going to them you're saying hey, let's do this Let's try to live this way and be on mission together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so you just assemble it now That one's actually harder because then you're going to be on a road of discovering Are we even really on in agreement on what this means to make a disciple?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure that whereas if you've discipled somebody they're going to want to continue in your footsteps My kids their lives and what they eat and how they prepare things and kind of how they run their households.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's their own It's a lot like Tina and I. Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, it's not so far flung.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're like, wow, I don't even know how you live this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because they were discipled by us.
Caesar Kalinowski:They were, they were, were raised in our home.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so first, like working with leaders you've developed, that is the best.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:In a sense.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think it's natural.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we say, raise the kids to move out, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's natural to, to develop people to the point of leadership.
Caesar Kalinowski:We don't want to Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I heard it said, like, you know, Paul talks about, you should be on milk now, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Army off the meat now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You should be on meat, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is what I'm doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's like, and it's, it's this idea that, you know, do you want to be in a small group or in a community church forever where everybody's pretty much like you just got to part their whiskers to put the bottle in there?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's like, like, whoa, are we growing?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are we maturing in Christ here?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, lay their life down increasingly, learning how the gospel speaks into everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, um, and so you want to develop people to lead.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the goal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Raise your kids to move out and then when they do start to lead, you'll, there'll be this push and pull just like, you know, leading my kids and parenting my adult kids is, it's a little different than when they were little.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, kind of what I said just goes, well now.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:They have opinion and they're adult and they have their own home and job and you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So now you lead in a very different way.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's one set.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and I, but I love that and I think it's good and it's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now that takes time and that takes maturity on your part as a leader too, to develop and then co lead with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I'm privileged, Tina are privileged enough to have been in many missional communities that we have raised up leaders and then stuck around that community for a little while while we kind of co led and then submitted to their leadership.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, literally, like, we're not leading anymore.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:You lead us.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to submit to, you know, what you're saying and polite, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's very tricky and it's not, it's, it can be prickly and you're not going to do it perfect at first, but that's really what you do with your kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember we say that discipleship is kind of a re parenting of people?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's what's going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:To raise up a mature disciple to the point of leadership, you're going to be letting the rope out and letting the rope out and giving them feedback and sometimes they're not going to take it well and then they're going to realize it was for their benefit and now they're doing it a little better.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, okay, why did you get prideful and weird there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's talk about what you weren't believing there to be true about yourself and what God says is true of you and all that, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, but that should be the goal.
Caesar Kalinowski:It shouldn't be that like, well, my wife and I lead this community and we're a closed group now because we're full.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're out of chairs.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just ridiculous.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no close sign in the kingdom of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like that's raise your kids to go start more.
Caesar Kalinowski:So take some people with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that should always be the goal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, the second thing is, is that putting a team of leaders together, just where you go like, well, I don't know anybody we're starting from scratch.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so there's this other couple from church that read like, you know, one of Caesar's books or Hughes books or something, you know, and then, um, and we're going to, we're going to give it a shot.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well now, uh, you're going to run over lots of stuff over time.
Caesar Kalinowski:So what I would say is before you officially have started anything, just hang out, just do life, treat each other like family for quite a while.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like why, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like let's run into a bunch of stuff and have a lot of conversations about the gospel and how life works and.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you can go back a couple of our episodes and listen to what we said about tithing and do you agree on that kind of, you know, like, like, yeah, let, let, like, let some road run and see like, Hey, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:We have a really good kind of co leadership thing going on here.
Caesar Kalinowski:We support one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not identical.
Caesar Kalinowski:We don't always agree, but we know how to work through it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, we have a basic understanding of the mission is discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've seen people pull together like a team, they're gonna lead a missional community and really half the leaders, they just want a really cool ingrown group of people who hang out a lot as Christians.
Caesar Kalinowski:And study the word and a half leadership's like, yeah, but what about my neighbors?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, do they go to our church?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, no, no, not yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe never.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know, but we're going to love them and disciple them to Christ, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, take some time, there again, small is big, slow is fast, you know, be a good book, um, and take some time before you call it anything, meaning, before you say like, we started a missional community, who's in it, well so far it's just the two of us, how about the two of you hang out a lot and hang out with others and then always have time so, you know, afterward to talk about what did you think about that conversation and how could we have phrased that better, how did I do it, helping them understand, they asked this question about our faith and, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Also.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is, this is super low hanging fruit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Give them a book that's rocked you about leading a missional community or missional community life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like get, you know, I just tell people, Hey, I don't need the 35 cents that, you know, I make on a book.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, would you give those people you think you want to lead and be in a missional community with a copy of Transformed?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And read through it and discuss each chapter and see what kind of stuff you agree on and prickly stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:And is this scaring the heck out of anybody or You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, do all that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the beginning of the beginning of the beginning.
Caesar Kalinowski:Take your time, spend a little time, try to get on the same page before you start sucking people in.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'd be like, I don't know if I want to live with this woman yet, or this man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not even sure we get along, I'm not sure if we, you know, let's just have a ton of kids and we'll figure it out on the way.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then we'll blow up the marriage and blow up the family like yeah, make sure you committed forever You know I'm not saying you commit to ever in a missional community because there again life grows and sometimes you move on we'll talk about that Too, but take your time Use books.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just find it's the easiest way read it get a book read it No, here's the thing person says I want to be a part of leadership in this new missional community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great Let's read this book and discuss it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, did you read that first chapter?
Caesar Kalinowski:No How about next week we get together and talk about, okay, great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, dude, I, I couldn't get to it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's like a 12 minute read bro chapter.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like you could find the time, like you could find the time, so that's probably not something you wanna leave with.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just love 'em.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's still your brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:Love them to death.
Caesar Kalinowski:If they can't lead themselves through a book, chances are they can't intentionally lead people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Same thing, by the way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Lemme just give you another pet pee.
Caesar Kalinowski:People say like, well, how many, you know, how many times a week do you get together to be like a Michel community?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, we're always a Michel community.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, how many days a week do you parent.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:All of them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so if they go like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not, listen, I don't have any more time to do this than like maybe Wednesdays and I can't even make every Wednesday, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, well then guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:They're never.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or like they won't, they won't buy the book.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, I've had people say like, well, I can't expect everybody to spend, you know, spend the money and get this, you know, training or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, they'll never lay down their entire life and that's what it takes to make a disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:If they can't get a book or read through a book or find the time to go serve on a Saturday, we go like, Hey, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:I've got a neighbor.
Caesar Kalinowski:She totally needs a hand.
Caesar Kalinowski:You want to come help me?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I was really thinking about going to the zoo with the kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go serve.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, if all this low hanging fruit stuff can't be accomplished, I'm not saying it's a bad person or the evil, they're just not ready to be leading with you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:You say, well, but I don't have anybody else.
Caesar Kalinowski:Pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start praying.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:God will send me.
Caesar Kalinowski:So many, I can't tell you how many times people have said, I don't still know anybody in our neighborhood or I don't, you know, there's nobody in our church that wants to live this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, they actually speak against it, you know, like, you know, like everything should happen here at the church building.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's like, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just let's pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's just pray together.
Caesar Kalinowski:God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then all of a sudden, like.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've been praying for six weeks, six months, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know if this couple just moved in or what, but we just met these people, and they're like, they mentioned you in a conversation.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, oh, the podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:I couldn't even believe it or something like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some weirdest, craziest thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so pray over all of this, like big time.
Caesar Kalinowski:And don't be afraid to say like, you know, I just don't think that that's going to be a good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Leadership team fit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's just not you see you see, you know, uh in the Bible then and everybody got along right Paul and Marvis Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:that's just they have different opinions.
Heath Hollensbe:So I love that too I love the organicness of it because I've been I remember being a part of a church that was their philosophy was like hey You want to start a small group?
Heath Hollensbe:We're gonna, we're gonna do your Myers Briggs test, see who you pair up with, and you guys, we'll give you, uh, the first eight weeks, and you guys start your small group.
Heath Hollensbe:And you go like, it fizzles, because there's no relationship, there's no commitment, we're not That's because it's due to be.
Heath Hollensbe:Exactly, this, you're a small group.
Heath Hollensbe:It's like, be this first, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, be a family living on mission together, yeah?
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:So, uh, how would you say that missional community leaders actually grow closer together in their relationships, so that they're not just doing tasks, but they actually begin to love one another and Enjoy doing life together.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, maybe you can give us a peek behind the veil Is this just a natural byproduct of life living together or is there some intentionality that has to go on?
Heath Hollensbe:Uh and intentionally pursuing one another well Some of it
Caesar Kalinowski:goes right back to like what's the goal here?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like when you said like, you know, you've been a part of churches where it's like, hey You're gonna be a small group leader So you take your myers briggs and someone else did and they put you together.
Caesar Kalinowski:It has nothing to do with proximity Life goals the way you understand the gospel it has to do with like you're both available on Tuesday night And you live, you know sort of in the same part of town sure or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe not, you know Yeah, so some of it has to do with like what is the goal?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are we looking to make disciples?
Caesar Kalinowski:As a lifestyle together, because that's, that's how we, you know, we look at it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not looking to just go through materials with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:If I found someone, it's like, Oh, they're just looking to go through materials.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it's for them.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is about knowledge acquisition.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So starting knowing that you have the same goal is that we want to have a lifestyle of discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we want to always be looking for like, who's next, who else can we bring into the family?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, if, assuming that the basic stuff, and that's why, you know, previous question, like going through some materials together, maybe discussing some missional stuff, you know, my books or others, you know, Tangible Kingdom, great book.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amazing book.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Super good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but then, then it's time.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's doing the life stuff together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not, you're not going to grow close together and really deep friendships and trust and be able to know like the unbelief that each other still sort of struggles with in the gospel because you get together once a week and you study the sermon outline.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, in a group.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then what does it mean to be in charge?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, he's asked the questions.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we host.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what leadership is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hosting.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks for hosting.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, come on.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, my, you have a house.
Caesar Kalinowski:All you did was let people sit on the couch.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no effort there, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, there's some, you had to like open the door, I guess.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, and well, I had to clean up afterwards.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ask them to do it anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're not going to grow closer together in your relationships.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just doing task.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Meaning just getting together for a study or once a week thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as leaders, Either prior to or as you're starting the group or even as the community grows.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you live like a family?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you trust each other like a family?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you bringing decisions to your others in the community or other leaders?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like it kills me Heath when people say like, um, yeah My wife and I are moving to Boston next month.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what?
Caesar Kalinowski:They've been in the community for months and months.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure And all of a sudden they've, they've not brought it to anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:They've not said, what do you think?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, why?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, well, my job's moving me there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why don't you just have your job, keep you here?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, bro, it's going to be a, I'm going to make six grand a year more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, well, I understand that's a lot of money, but it's like, holy cow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you have the community pray through?
Caesar Kalinowski:You're not, you're not doing life.
Caesar Kalinowski:You were doing a study together.
Caesar Kalinowski:You were doing some church activity to check some form of box.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the leaders do the same things.
Caesar Kalinowski:Unfortunately, sometimes you'd be surprised at how many people you wouldn't be.
Caesar Kalinowski:You might be surprised at how many.
Caesar Kalinowski:Church leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll say, Hey, who's this guy?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's my so and so department lead.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like that's head of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Tell me their story.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, I don't know their story.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, I think they're from Chicago, but that's not a story.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a fact.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like you do life together, maybe do vacations together, get together and serve on the weekends, hang out with your kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:See if you parents similarly love each other enough to say, Hey bro.
Caesar Kalinowski:You didn't parent very well there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like your kid is going nuts.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're going crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can we talk about how we might love your child well and love the rest of the community?
Caesar Kalinowski:And if that's too offensive to talk about, guess what's more offensive?
Caesar Kalinowski:Your kids!
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So you got to do enough life together that you're moving from unbelief to belief and have enough trust that like, you know, if Heath comes to me in seriousness and wants to talk about anything, I'm going to listen because I trust him.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I know he might not say it perfectly.
Caesar Kalinowski:He might not roll it out super fluent because he's still working on that new language, but.
Caesar Kalinowski:But there's a trust there.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a trust there and we're going to work through it together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and then I'm going to, I'm going to come back with, well, I need to hear, think about that and pray about that and help me see that better, you know, and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it takes time.
Caesar Kalinowski:It takes doing life together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I wouldn't say that to, to go back to your question, it's not just an accidental, natural byproduct of living life together.
Caesar Kalinowski:When people say living life together, they usually mean like we've been in the same small group for years.
Caesar Kalinowski:How much do you, did you go to all the kids soccer games?
Caesar Kalinowski:Did you like help pay their bills?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like when that person got divorced, did you walk through all that with them or were they shamed?
Caesar Kalinowski:Were they weirded out?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:They kind of feel like outside the group because everybody else is still married.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you know, how did you go through all the different stuff of joys and pains and trials and of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:And fun and sharing and covering each other and just outrageous acts of generosity that you do for one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because you love each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because you get to.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the stuff that's going to grow you closer.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's what you'll lead out of.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like if you can't do it with like supposedly your best, you know, team members, like your, your friends, your leaders, wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then on top of that, you have to trust each other enough to say, and there's a day coming when we're probably going to each lead groups separately.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because.
Caesar Kalinowski:Healthy things always grow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:They always do.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so community, a family, eventually going to get like, this is just, it's getting really cumbersome just to even have meals together and go out and serve and coordinate our time.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's just so hard.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so half the people aren't making it half the time anyway to anything that we're doing as far as meals or serving or studying or praying or learning.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so like we're going to, we're going to go ahead and multiply this thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to start a new family on mission together.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's what it's going to take.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to take doing life.
Caesar Kalinowski:on life, really, actually, all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, remember too, um, God shows his grace on earth through people, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And leaders show other, uh, others God's grace and that includes each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're giving grace to each other and your primarily, your primary job in the community as a leader is to show people what it looks like to know and live out the good news of the kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me just say that again, primary role of a missional community leader is to show others God's grace, not to bust them, not to crap on them, not to, you know, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's to show them God's grace and what it looks like to know and live out the gospel, the good news of the kingdom in every area of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your job in leading missional community or church for that matter, is primarily that not to be in charge or make all the decisions about what everyone else is supposed to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start doing that with others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start sharing that with your leaders, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Show them the grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:Show them what life in the kingdom looks like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Lay down your preferences in life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, choices and all that stuff for each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:Submit to one another, like share what you're going through decisions that you're making.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, our cars broke down.
Caesar Kalinowski:What do you, what do you think we should do?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, should we manage this as a community?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do we got a bunch of extra cars between us?
Caesar Kalinowski:Should we share?
Caesar Kalinowski:What do we, do I need to get a new car?
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think I can afford it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe, you know, I don't, what should we do?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like do that together as leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remembering that that's your, that's your role as a leader.
Caesar Kalinowski:With everybody else as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:You gotta model that stuff, so it starts with you as leaders.
Heath Hollensbe:That makes sense, ma'am.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, let's flip the coin a little bit and talk about conflict.
Heath Hollensbe:Um, Hey!
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, it's always fun talking about conflict, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Remember, conflict
Caesar Kalinowski:is just the opportunity.
Caesar Kalinowski:For the good news to speak in and not yet another area of unbelief.
Heath Hollensbe:So what do you think the best way is to bring up conflict?
Heath Hollensbe:To somebody you're leading a missional community with say you and I are leading a missional community and you and I over time are starting There's like this just rift and maybe we're not a
Caesar Kalinowski:particular thing or where we should go next or
Heath Hollensbe:yeah We just can't seem to get back on firing all cylinders.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, is that something that We would have the conversation first and then take it to the missional community because if the missional community's family Do they need to be brought in at the very beginning of the conflict?
Heath Hollensbe:Or is that like how would you how would you address dealing with that sort of conflict in a situation?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I'd say as conflict arises if conflict happens in private, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Then address it in private and then maybe if it affects others bring it to the family a missional community By the way is not it's not a democracy where everybody votes.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not leadership It's like a family
Heath Hollensbe:because you're,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, your family, do you guys have the kids vote on everything?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what time do you want to go to bed?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now I'm not saying you dictate everything in everybody's life.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what a community is about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mary just said leader's job is not primarily to tell everybody what to do, but you lead by the example of your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:You lead and say, well, this is for me and my family or us and our families as leaders.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's how we're going to roll.
Caesar Kalinowski:Join us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what Jesus did.
Caesar Kalinowski:Come and follow me.
Caesar Kalinowski:He didn't go like, Hey, you guys want to talk about what days might be convenient for you to hang out with me?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what time?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that doesn't work.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's just, that's not it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So if conflict happens in private, between leaders, Address it in private.
Caesar Kalinowski:If it affects then the rest of the people, then say, Hey, then bring it up that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Conflict that happens in public, Okay, like, let's say you're doing something else, And you go like, No, no, no, no, Heath, that's not where we're going.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not what we're doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or that's not even right, bro.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, so if conflict happens in public, meaning the family's around, then it gets addressed in private first and then in public.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what I mean by that is, you ever have somebody that's like, just like go off and say something crazy offensive, like in community, but then they apologize to you, like in the kitchen later.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then they never apologize to the rest of the community.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's happening.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, if it happens publicly, address it privately first, because you don't want to shame each other.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not, never the goal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Try to find what was the unbelief going on?
Caesar Kalinowski:What did I do?
Caesar Kalinowski:What did, you know, what were you believing?
Caesar Kalinowski:What's going on?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then go back to the people.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the person who initiated that offense should say, Hey, I need to, I need to ask for your forgiveness for something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I said this earlier to Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that was me not believing this to be true about God and me trying to play God and not believing this to be true about Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:But in fact, this is true.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, Jesus says this is true.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to believe that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, Heath's forgiven me.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to ask you guys, I want to tell you I'm sorry and I want to ask you to forgive me.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, conflict that happens in private gets addressed in private.
Caesar Kalinowski:If it affects the community, then go there.
Caesar Kalinowski:If it happens publicly, address it privately first, then go public with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I just don't, I think you miss so many opportunities when stuff doesn't get brought back then to public and say, okay, here's why it was sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's the truth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You just miss all those opportunities for the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:And here's another thing too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember the one and others of scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:When there's conflict, it's a good time to go back to the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, always.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I'm saying when there's difference of opinion, when it's like, where should we go?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, we're just not getting along as leaders, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Remember the one and others of scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there are at least 23 of those that I can count and they're powerful and they cover pretty much every kind of conflict in, in, I don't know, does everybody know what I mean by that?
Caesar Kalinowski:One another's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like be devoted to one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, live in harmony with one another, Romans 12, 16.
Caesar Kalinowski:Stop passing judgment on one another, Romans 14, 13.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's at least 23 I have.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, I'll, I'll list them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you can look them up yourself, but I'll list them.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll put them, make them part of the big three this week for everybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:But that's a good time too.
Caesar Kalinowski:When there's, we're just not, uh, we don't want to quit.
Caesar Kalinowski:We don't want to not be leaders together, but we're kind of at an impasse.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd say talk through, read through those one another's until like, I don't think I'm doing that for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or you know what, right there, that one, I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't think you're, you know, bearing for me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you're not doing, you're not one another in me there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd like to ask you, could you, could you bear with me on that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or could you forgive me there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, you know, instruct one another.
Caesar Kalinowski:Could, could you allow me to instruct you in something?
Caesar Kalinowski:I put a whole lot of time into studying this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Would you just sit in a seat a learner for a second?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, or for a day or two?
Caesar Kalinowski:Trust me on this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, serve one another in love.
Caesar Kalinowski:Could you allow me to serve you here?
Caesar Kalinowski:I know you, you like, I'll do it, I'll do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like Would you just allow me to serve you?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like it says right here, Galatians 5.
Caesar Kalinowski:Serve one another in love, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's a good time to pull those one another's out.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really is.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'll, I'll put a link to a list of that, or I'll give you the list of it all.
Caesar Kalinowski:Somehow it'll be connected to the big three and in the show notes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, speaking of the big three, uh, let's get to that actually right now.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, for those who are out running errands or haven't had time to really take some notes for this, but want to have some tangible takeaways.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Heath Hollensbe:We're going to give you the free written download of the big three by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three, which will include the one another's in scripture.
Heath Hollensbe:And again, you get that for free by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here we go again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Head, I'll give you one on one for each category there.
Caesar Kalinowski:First one, don't miss this, you're a part of God's family, you're a family, and everyone is important, but they're different.
Caesar Kalinowski:That means leaders too.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're important, but they might be different.
Caesar Kalinowski:People have different skills and perspectives, different experiences in life, giftings, maturity, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes people can lead and they might not be as mature as you, but they get to lead too.
Caesar Kalinowski:And God is aware of all of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he has brought you together for just a time as this, okay, for just such a time.
Caesar Kalinowski:So trust him to work out this beautiful tapestry, this beautiful mess, as it's been called sometimes, that is his family in your community and among your leadership.
Caesar Kalinowski:If everybody does exactly the same, there's going to be huge voids in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And some day, I think we've talked about a pest giftings, you know, pop, hip hop, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, Everybody's, yeah, everybody's different, but they're all important.
Caesar Kalinowski:So trust God that this isn't an, this isn't an accident.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why are we here together?
Caesar Kalinowski:Secondly, if God's clearly called you to lead others, I just want to just remind you, it's a high and humble calling.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yup.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is.
Caesar Kalinowski:God shows his grace on earth through people and leaders show others God's grace and what it looks like to know and live out of the good news of the kingdom in every year of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your job in leading a missional community, like we said earlier, so that's why I'm saying don't miss it, or a church, is primarily Um, that, to show others what it looks like to live out the good news, speak the good news, not just to sort of be in charge of decision making for everybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Third, um, be sure that the things that you agree on and the things that you don't are actually that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm. Often, our words and assumptions can lead us into hard and hurtful places.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I thought you meant this, and I meant that, or we've always used that word.
Caesar Kalinowski:I meant this by it, you meant that, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Churches and communities have split throughout history over misunderstandings and language and cultural differences.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as a leadership team, it's good to read and pray through the one another's.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I said earlier, maybe a book or two that's like, this is on point, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is where I'm heading.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want to head there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and, and, and go through that stuff and spend time in the gospel and in prayer together when conflict arises.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:Love that, man.
Heath Hollensbe:So we're going to give the big three.
Heath Hollensbe:As well as the one another's, um, all for free.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, you get that by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:You'll get them right away.
Heath Hollensbe:And we'd like to thank Tara for suggesting this show.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep, thanks again.
Heath Hollensbe:And you know how she did it?
Heath Hollensbe:By being part of the Facebook group.
Heath Hollensbe:Bing.
Heath Hollensbe:Boom.
Heath Hollensbe:That's how There you go.
Heath Hollensbe:So if you're not part of it, go to Facebook, search Everyday Disciple Podcast in the search bar.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar or I will approve you.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, just search that
Caesar Kalinowski:up.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like one of those group things.
Caesar Kalinowski:You gotta, like, hey, join group.
Heath Hollensbe:We'll approve you.
Heath Hollensbe:We'll get you in.
Heath Hollensbe:And that's where you, like, if you have show suggestions, throw them in there.
Heath Hollensbe:We listen.
Heath Hollensbe:We do shows based off things that you guys are curious about.
Heath Hollensbe:Join us next week as we talk about church discipline.
Heath Hollensbe:Great.
Heath Hollensbe:Awesome.
Heath Hollensbe:Everybody likes to talk about church discipline.
Heath Hollensbe:And what happens when there are fences against you.
Heath Hollensbe:Not just in leadership now.
Heath Hollensbe:We're going to talk about like, hey, church discipline.
Heath Hollensbe:Are we really supposed to turn people over to Satan?
Heath Hollensbe:And what does that even mean?
Heath Hollensbe:Or Is that maybe just a misunderstood aspect of how, uh, we're supposed to do what is called church disciplines.
Heath Hollensbe:We're gonna get into that.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:it's so rarely done right and well.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's actually biblical.
Caesar Kalinowski:People like quote all kinds of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's just go back and read it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's read it again.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what we're gonna do.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna be way in scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next week as we look at that one, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a good one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hope everybody will come and join us for that one.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.