Conversations: How We Make Disciples
Discipleship is not about knowledge acquisition or teaching folks lots of stuff about the Bible. It’s not enough to teach facts or gain knowledge… Disciples must be formed in ways that change their motivation and give them active gospel experiences.
In this episode, Caesar continues in the series Conversations. We’re halfway through 10 essential topics you’ll need to discuss with those you want to lead toward a lifestyle of discipleship and mission. Hear a conversation between a couple of friends that in a powerful way teaches us to reorient our thinking on how we need to make disciples of Jesus.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- A powerful parable that reframes disciple-making.
- How our current methods of discipleship fall way short.
- The ways people need to experience new things in order to change.
- A reproducible method for making your discipleship more holistic.
From this episode:
“If you feel like your current discipleship (in your church or with others) doesn’t get outside the classroom enough to help people experience the Gospel lived out in all of life… walking with Jesus in more and more areas of life in community with others, you’ll need to rethink some stuff and start to have the type of conversations like you’ll hear today…”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Free Download of the Big 3 For Episode #368
Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.
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Transcript
Discipleship is not about knowledge, acquisition, discipling.
Caesar:Someone's not just about teaching them lots of stuff about the.
Caesar:Maybe that sounds obvious, but you see, it's not enough to teach facts and gain knowledge.
Caesar:Disciples must be formed in ways that change their motivation and give them active gospel experiences ask yourself was the way you were discipled.
Caesar:If you actually were like the way that Ms.
Caesar:Barnabas taught our friend Terry here, or was it more like faith by the night?
Caesar:With little experience out in real life, along with the assumption that, well, you were practicing these things and because you pray to Jesus in my heart, prayer, you now had great love for Jesus and God's glory and all people.
Caesar:And you had a community to do this with.
Caesar:I think we make those big assumptions tacked onto bad discipleship . And that's why we're not seeing the maturity and growth and spiritual freedom that Jesus promised us
Announcer:welcome to the Everyday Disciple podcast where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality andan integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Announcer:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle, this is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Announcer:And now here's your host Caesar.
Announcer:Kalinowski
Caesar:all right.
Caesar:Good to be back with you.
Caesar:Hope your day is going well.
Caesar:I'm doing great over here again.
Caesar:I always like to check in, see how you're doing.
Caesar:I do have to say, though, I am officially today.
Caesar:It dawned on me.
Caesar:I'm officially over winter.
Caesar:I'm just I'm done with it.
Caesar:We don't even get that hard of winners here in the Pacific Northwest.
Caesar:It's sorta between 37 and 43, mostly 43 to 50 all winter.
Caesar:We did get a little snow, but it's just, I'm kinda over it.
Caesar:I'm just kinda ready for spring.
Caesar:I'm over the sort of the gray time of the year.
Caesar:I don't know where you're at or what you're experiencing, but that's what I'm experiencing.
Caesar:And I am ready, ready for winter to be gone.
Caesar:And I can tell too, because Tina and I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking online at super sunny, warm vacation spots that we need to book.
Caesar:Like April or may or something.
Caesar:So I can tell I'm definitely over that.
Caesar:Hey, today I was just reading an amazing post by Tim Keller.
Caesar:It's part of an ongoing series.
Caesar:I just had to pass it along.
Caesar:It's called the decline and renewal of the American church.
Caesar:This is part two, the decline of evangelicalism.
Caesar:Wow.
Caesar:Thank you, Tim Keller.
Caesar:This thing is amazing and insightful.
Caesar:And as always with Tim, it's very articulate and I've just, I'm finding it, stirring my heart up in so many ways and affirming some things, but also giving me.
Caesar:Oh, you know, to give you guys a little bit of a shove in certain areas like, Hey, so I was like, how do I incorporate some of this?
Caesar:So I thought, let me just pass it on again.
Caesar:It's called the decline and renewal of the American church part to the decline of evangelicalism by Tim Keller.
Caesar:I know if you Google it, you'll find it right away.
Caesar:Now let's get a little business done before we dive into today's topic.
Caesar:Have you joined us over on Facebook yet?
Caesar:We have that Everyday Disciple Podcast group over there on Facebook.
Caesar:I'd sure.
Caesar:Love for you to jump in with us.
Caesar:Yeah, it'd be great.
Caesar:You get to talk about the show.
Caesar:It reminds you of the show.
Caesar:You can leave comments, thoughts, questions, or anything to do with discipleship in your context, or the gospel or gospel fluency any or all.
Caesar:And I'm always looking forward to whatever you post and I try to get in there every day.
Caesar:And in fact, I'm pretty sure I make it in there every day to either say some things or answer questions, check it out, see what's going on.
Caesar:So please join us.
Caesar:You can just search that up Everyday Disciple Podcast and Facebook, or go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash Facebook.
Caesar:It's also your best place to get announcements from us about upcoming training or freebies or events maybe that I'm speaking at or.
Caesar:And I've got another Everyday Disciple challenge coming up soon, four days live each day, free training with all kinds of cool stuff and even a way for you to get the recordings of it permanently this time.
Caesar:So all that's coming up soon just saying, and if you're in the Facebook group with us, you're going to hear about that first.
Caesar:So check that out.
Caesar:Also, I want to give a little plug to our sponsor Missio publishing.
Caesar:I still think that Missio publishes.
Caesar:Some of, and many of the very best discipleship and Missional living resources that are available out there.
Caesar:I continually use them in community myself and recommend them to those we coach.
Caesar:Of course they are my publisher.
Caesar:They have a couple of my resources with more coming, but if you've not checked it out yet, or it's been awhile or you're thinking, wow, what do we need to do with our groups now?
Caesar:Or maybe you're all over the place or you're trying to think of what do I do with all my groups.
Caesar:Please check it out.
Caesar:Go over to Missio publishing.com.
Caesar:M I S S I O ,missio.
Caesar:CEO publishing.com.
Caesar:And I am just about with Tina to start a new coaching.
Caesar:Cohort coming up here in a few weeks.
Caesar:If you've been hearing me talk about this and you're thinking, yeah, one of these days, I'm going to get around to that.
Caesar:Well, maybe today's the day.
Caesar:Maybe now.
Caesar:I'd love to tell you more about it.
Caesar:Check it out over at Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:If you go there to that link Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:It'll tell you all about it and also give you a way to get in touch with me so we can set up a little zoom call.
Caesar:Talk about it, answer any questions I'd love to get you started.
Caesar:We just have a few slots left.
Caesar:I'd love for you to join us.
Caesar:All right, so please check that out.
Caesar:Now let's get to where we're going today.
Caesar:Discipleship is not about knowledge, acquisition, or discipling.
Caesar:Someone's not just about teaching them lots of stuff about the Bible.
Caesar:Maybe that sounds obvious, but you see, it's not enough to teach facts and gain knowledge.
Caesar:Disciples must be formed in ways that change their motivation.
Caesar:And give them active gospel experiences.
Caesar:So I'm not just saying, Hey, can't just do this in a classroom.
Caesar:It's not about head knowledge alone, but what is it?
Caesar:It's way more active.
Caesar:It's way more life on life.
Caesar:It's way more motivationally connected.
Caesar:Remember the five E's we discussed a few episodes back of how people move from where they're at to new ideas and embracing those things.
Caesar:It went expose embraced.
Caesar:Engage equip expand.
Caesar:Those are the five stages we all move through.
Caesar:We have to first be exposed then so we can embrace it and then start to engage it.
Caesar:And then we're going to need more equipping on we go.
Caesar:So if you feel like your current discipleship in your church, or personally with others, doesn't get outside the class.
Caesar:To help people experience the gospel, lived out in all of life, walking with Jesus in more and more areas of life and community.
Caesar:Well, you'll need to rethink some stuff and start to have the type of conversations like you'll hear today because people do need a much broader.
Caesar:Approach to discipleship than just classroom or book learning.
Caesar:And you know that they are going to need experiential ways to expose them to life in the kingdom so that they can truly embrace it.
Caesar:Not just hearing about it or afraid of their afterlife experience or something like that.
Caesar:As we continue on in our conversation series today, I'm going to share a conversation between a couple of friends that in some ways is meant to teach us in reorient our thinking on how we make disciples.
Caesar:It's a parable of sorts in you'll hear.
Caesar:how it ends kind of on a bit of a sarcastic note, playfully really kind, but it's two women speaking.
Caesar:I'm going to share the conversation with you.
Caesar:They don't sound anything like me, but again, this is a critical topic to grapple with.
Caesar:If we want to see our church really engaged in mission in discipleship as our primary focus, you'll need to be having these types of conversations.
Caesar:If you want to move your discipleship well beyond classes in head knowledge, and here it is.
Caesar:Well, a few more hours and we'll be finished.
Caesar:You know, I have a love, hate relationship with these yard sales.
Caesar:I love getting rid of our old junk, but it seems like more trouble than it's worth sometimes.
Caesar:Thanks for coming over to help today.
Caesar:And at least we got some time to catch up together.
Caesar:I really appreciate it, Jill.
Caesar:No problem.
Caesar:And don't forget when we were cleaning up that big closet, you found your old violin and music books from high school.
Caesar:That's pretty cool.
Caesar:I don't remember when I was first learning to play the violin.
Caesar:Terry said I started by studying music theory.
Caesar:I learned the history of the violin and how they were made, how they were constructed.
Caesar:I listened to endless hours of music that was played by accomplished violinists.
Caesar:I listened and studied for two years, but it was all dots on a page to me.
Caesar:And you know what, when I picked up the violin, I could still not play.
Caesar:It very well just sounded like a series of squawks and squeaks that were horrible and far from being beautiful music.
Caesar:Jill asked Terry didn't your teacher require that you actually practice playing the violin along the way.
Caesar:I mean, that is how people learn things.
Caesar:Right?
Caesar:Well, we did a few minutes of hands-onstuff each week.
Caesar:Like where to place my chin on the violin and certain finger techniques.
Caesar:But I guess he just figured I was practicing it on my own at home or playing it for my parents and friends.
Caesar:He said, I should do this.
Caesar:And he assigned that as homework, but I had no confidence in it at all.
Caesar:So I rarely practiced or played in front of anyone.
Caesar:But Terry, when you first found your old violin today, you opened up the case.
Caesar:Tune that thing up and played me a beautiful song.
Caesar:Yeah, it was a little rusty, but clearly you're a very good violinist.
Caesar:What happened?
Caesar:How are, when did you really learn to play so well, well, in my junior year, our family moved across town and I had a different music teacher.
Caesar:She not only taught us music theory and how to read charts and all that, but she gave us a love for the music.
Caesar:She would sit and listen to her favorite recordings with us, pointing out why certain parts were so amazing.
Caesar:And I fell in love with the violin for the first time.
Caesar:She'd also listen to us play and give us encouragement and feedback along the way.
Caesar:She even came to my house a few times when I played recitals in my living room for family and friends, she was awesome.
Caesar:And here's some good news.
Caesar:It actually sounded like music.
Caesar:When I did that.
Caesar:Beautiful music.
Caesar:Well, what a gift she was Terry, what was her name?
Caesar:I'll never forget it.
Caesar:It was Ms.
Caesar:Barnabas.
Caesar:She was the best.
Caesar:She not only taught me about the violin.
Caesar:She made sure my heart was moved by the music and watched and encouraged me at every step until I was good at playing.
Caesar:You know what, Jill, I'm going to keep this soul violin and start playing it again.
Caesar:I can't believe I ever thought about selling it.
Caesar:Oh, Terry, look at what time it is.
Caesar:I got to get over to the church building.
Caesar:It's the ninth week, my discipleship training classes, only three more weeks of study.
Caesar:And I guess I'm officially disciple.
Caesar:alright . You get it.
Caesar:You see what's going on there.
Caesar:It really is like a parable.
Caesar:What a contrast with how most of us were discipled quote unquote, or how our church tries to make disciples.
Caesar:I love this short conversation.
Caesar:It's really packed with insight and practical stuff without stating do this.
Caesar:And then do that.
Caesar:It's really, like I said, it's like a parable in this way.
Caesar:It brings about great implication and ask yourself was the way you were discipled.
Caesar:If you actually were like the way that Ms.
Caesar:Barnabus has taught our friend Terry here, or was it more like faith by the numbers?
Caesar:With little experience out in real life, along with the assumption that, well, you were practicing these things and because you pray to Jesus in my heart, prayer, you now had great love for Jesus and God's glory and all people.
Caesar:And you had a community to do this with.
Caesar:Hmm.
Caesar:I think we make those big assumptions tacked onto bad discipleship.
Caesar:And that's why we're not seeing the maturity and growth and spiritual freedom that Jesus promised us.
Caesar:We've seen a massive impact by discipling people in a much fuller way and the kind of put handles on it.
Caesar:We've always tried to look at discipleship and the training and equipping we were doing through the lens of head heart hands.
Caesar:Right head heart hands got to learn.
Caesar:Some stuff, got to believe some stuff got experienced some stuff, but I'm learning that really things often flow or need to flow sort of in the other direction.
Caesar:Hands, heart.
Caesar:head, Whereas we need to maybe start hands giving people an experience of what this is like to help them fall in love with Jesus in the kingdom and begin to trust God in more and more ways.
Caesar:That's hands, it's an experience of what this is like to live with Jesus and walk in his ways.
Caesar:And then we moved heart where it's belief, it's a heart level, understanding of our freedom and living this way.
Caesar:And God's unconditional love for us along the whole process.
Caesar:Because we're all a work in progress and then moving to head those skills and training that folks need to learn and grow and succeed and master things.
Caesar:So they can then disciple others.
Caesar:How can you start to fill your disciple-making up with all three of these aspects and what do you think about flipping that I've always.
Caesar:Mentally thought through it, head heart hands, but I'm finding it very powerful to go hands hard head and realizing how that fits into the five E's much better.
Caesar:And it's actually how I learn.
Caesar:I know this conversation today gives you plenty to think about, but please don't just think of.
Caesar:Have this conversation with others, with key leaders in your church, your spouse.
Caesar:In fact, I've said it before, you may want to send links to each of these 10 conversations episode to your elders and community group leaders or your small group leaders.
Caesar:Church staff use it as a bit of a conversation starter yourself.
Caesar:And again, if you want help with this, I would love to be able to walk with you, Tina and I walk with you and your spouse, if you're married or if you're not, we'll do it just with you and all in cohort in experience, a community of people who are learning the same things that way with us in our coaching, check it out at Everyday.
Caesar:Disciple dot com forward slash coaching.
Caesar:Now is a great time.
Caesar:We open up cohorts and spaces when we have them, when we have space and we do right now, starting up in a few weeks.
Caesar:But it could be months till that happens again.
Caesar:So please check that out and consider not putting that off anymore.
Caesar:And at least talking to me and seeing if it's a good fit.
Caesar:Now let's get to the big three takeaways from today's topic.
Caesar:As always, you can get a printable PDF of this week's big three free download.
Caesar:Just go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three.
Caesar:Now, here you go.
Caesar:Here's our big three for this week.
Caesar:How can you begin to give people a living experience of the gospel in everyday life?
Caesar:I think you're starting to see how discipleship must happen in community with others and take place in normal life.
Caesar:Start by having a weekly meal together with those you're discipling and not at the church building and talk about how you can together live out your faith in what you're learning with others.
Caesar:Begin a predictable pattern and rhythm of serving together.
Caesar:It's amazing.
Caesar:Often when we get out and we serve, get our hands dirty, be with people who aren't necessarily believers that are, see life the same way.
Caesar:Often areas of unbelief, preference and fear can show up when we're out there serving others.
Caesar:Well, that's great.
Caesar:Then we can learn to apply the good news to all those issues.
Caesar:That's where discipleship really happens.
Caesar:That's where the rubber meets the road.
Caesar:Number two, the gospel is not something that happened.
Caesar:Itis happening god loves us completely where we're at, but he's not done with us yet.
Caesar:And our ongoing sanctification and redemption is the continuous work of the gospel.
Caesar:How is the gospel expanding and becoming more present in your daily life and community today?
Caesar:Number three, once we grasp that discipleship is a hands, heart head experience.
Caesar:So experience belief and learning.
Caesar:We get to choose whether or not we will embrace it this way and start to include all three aspects in our disciple-making with others, or will we continue to just do it the way we've always done and hope for and expect different results.
Caesar:And that's crazy.
Caesar:Get out there, try new things, ask others how they would like to experience the gospel in action.
Caesar:They need it.
Caesar:You need it.
Caesar:We all know.
Caesar:Okay, well, that's plenty.
Caesar:That's it for today.
Caesar:I hope you'll join me as we continue on in this conversation series.
Caesar:Next time we get together, we're going to listen to a conversation about discipleship in all of life.
Caesar:I'm going to go a little deeper with this conversation.
Caesar:The gospel is not just the beginning of our Christian faith and our ticket to heaven.
Caesar:Our discipleship has implications for all of life and all you're picking up on that again.
Caesar:I think you're going to love it.
Caesar:And I just want to last minute here, don't forget to check out the coaching.
Caesar:If you're interested or even curious, go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash coaching before it's too late.
Caesar:Thanks for being here.
Caesar:I'll talk to you soon.
Announcer:Thanks for joining us today for more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit Everyday Disciple dot com.
Announcer:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and
Announcer:relationalpeace that Jesus