Can You Be a Christian But Not a Disciple?
Somewhere along the way, we have mistakenly made it acceptable in the church to be a Christian but not a disciple. But Jesus never offered two acceptable standards for living the Christian life, just one: disciples of Jesus make more disciples.
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, I am joined by authors Kent Ingle and Steve Saccone. We discuss discipleship challenges facing the church today, and they share a process for disciple-making laid out clearly in their new book, Made For More. These guys are super smart and you will love this!
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- What has led to our current lack of discipleship in the church today.
- The ways Steve and Kent were discipled early in their lives.
- How an unwavering connection to God needs to be the foundation of your life.
- The importance of making time in your life to be a disciple maker.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.
Made For More book by Kent Ingle and Steve Saccone
Discipleship and Missional Resources
Transcript
I think the greatest spiritual challenge in our day and age is to make ourselves available.
Dr. Kent Ingle:We just need to be available to building friendship with God and relationship with Him in a consistent everyday way.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I think the main narrative in our lives right now always seems to be about Business, you know, schedules and events and I got to see this and that and you know all of that and so unless we establish an alternative way of doing day to day living, we are on our way to being overwhelmed by all the demands and distractions of the world, so if we don't slow down and that's one of the big Takeaways, if you will, enough to foster our friendship and relationship with God, we will lose our way.
Announcer:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally
Announcer:fits into every area of life.
Announcer:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Announcer:This is the stuff.
Announcer:your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you
Announcer:. And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, hey, welcome back.
Caesar Kalinowski:Indeed.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope your day or week is going well, going great.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've had a great week all last week.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, maybe you heard me talk about this on the last episode, or if you're getting my weekly emails, uh, with my, with team K with the family and did a whole lot of fishing, uh, with the grandsons, my two oldest are six and five.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they've just.
Caesar Kalinowski:Decided they are fishermen and they are falling in love with it and it is a blast to watch the whole thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:But even better than that, uh, I was able to check off from my bucket list an item today.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was just a little before the recording of this episode.
Caesar Kalinowski:I caught my very first ever salmon.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I actually didn't know if I'd ever catch one.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've come close.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's some sad stories of, you know, a friend who's slow with a net and things like that, as I was pulling salmon in to the boat and all that in the past.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, um, and I even grew up in Waukegan, Illinois, which is the freshwater salmon capital of the world, and I fished for salmon shoulder to shoulder with zillions of people who caught lots of them.
Caesar Kalinowski:But until today, I never was able to catch my own salmon.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I caught a nice size pink salmon.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Tina and I have already been eating some of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So anyway, uh, it was great.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's been a great week and I'm just thankful to God for some of the cool things that we get to do as a family.
Caesar Kalinowski:And with others I was doing actually fishing today.
Caesar Kalinowski:When I caught that salmon, a person of peace in my life took me out and set me up and just really blessed me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he took care of all the setup and cleaning the fish.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just, it was great.
Caesar Kalinowski:So anyway, grateful for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, let me read another review that came in here in the last few weeks.
Caesar Kalinowski:This one came in from, it says, Oz Robinson, and the headline there is, Incredible Show with Incredibly Insightful Information.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, thank you very much, and another great five star review, thank you so much.
Caesar Kalinowski:He says, I help manage a business that has struggled with leadership development.
Caesar Kalinowski:I came across this show and the episode discussing the M.
Caesar Kalinowski:A.
Caesar Kalinowski:W.
Caesar Kalinowski:L.
Caesar Kalinowski:process, now M.
Caesar Kalinowski:A.
Caesar Kalinowski:W.
Caesar Kalinowski:L.
Caesar Kalinowski:is an acronym, maybe you heard that episode on model, assist, watch, and then leave, and he says, so I heard that episode on M.
Caesar Kalinowski:A.
Caesar Kalinowski:W.
Caesar Kalinowski:L., the and I've been blown away by its simplicity and its effectiveness.
Caesar Kalinowski:The big three are especially helpful to leave with a concise conclusion.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, that's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm glad that you're not only using that in your personal life and disciple making and all, but you're also Reporting that over into business and your job and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks for that glowing review.
Caesar Kalinowski:I appreciate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Again, when you leave reviews, wherever you leave them, and this one came in through Apple podcast, it helps, uh, the algorithms share this with more people, but also as people go like, what's this show about?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not just the description, we.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's from you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you're enjoying the show, I appreciate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wherever you can leave a review, take that 30 whole seconds and please do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really blesses us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you might even have your review read on the podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd appreciate that.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, now today we'll be talking about discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, no kidding.
Caesar Kalinowski:And some of the challenges that the church is facing today, and we'll be talking about it from a pretty high level.
Caesar Kalinowski:Things like, can you really be a Christian and not be a disciple of Jesus?
Caesar Kalinowski:Not everybody agrees on this, but we're going to talk about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And disciples make disciples, by the way.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you'd say, well, I think I'm a disciple, but are you making disciples?
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's the thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll also be sharing a super practical tool with you that's brand new.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm really excited about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm joined by two really smart guys.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're godly men.
Caesar Kalinowski:They've written a new playbook, actually.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll tell you a little bit about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:A playbook for disciple making with others, and it's called Made for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it was written by Dr.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kent Ingle and Steve Saccone, and Kent Ingle serves as the president of Southeastern University down in Lakeland, Florida.
Caesar Kalinowski:This guy's really a great guy, real smart guy, and he is passionate about educating and preparing others.
Caesar Kalinowski:for Christ centered leadership and service.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to hear that.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to feel that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to bring them on in just a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's the author of several leadership books, and he's also a frequent columnist for Fox News, Newsmax, and Influence Magazine.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to love this guy.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's very articulate and got some cool things to share with us today.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then also Steve Saccone.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's also a teacher and a pioneer in the field of leadership development.
Caesar Kalinowski:For more than two decades, he has served and partnered with churches nationwide to design and launch.
Caesar Kalinowski:Innovative new leadership development programs.
Caesar Kalinowski:Also an author, written several books, including Relational Intelligence, and one of my favorites, really a great book called Talking About God, Honest Conversations About Spirituality.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, if you're the note taking type of person, let me give you the link to their new book that we're going to mention.
Caesar Kalinowski:coming up here right, right up front.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me just give it a link.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause I know you're going to want this so you can get their new book made for more by going to missiopublishing.
Caesar Kalinowski:com, M I S S I O publishing.
Caesar Kalinowski:com and you'll look under books.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll see it there.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll be easy to find or even easier.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's our little quick link.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash made for more.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all one word.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no spaces or hyphens, just everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash made for more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, now let me bring Dr.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ingle and Steve Saccone.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am so excited to have you both
Caesar Kalinowski:on.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's been
Caesar Kalinowski:like trying to get the planets to align a little bit, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:To get all the schedules.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're both very, very busy.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, we've got the semi world famous, if not truly world famous, Kent Ingle.
Caesar Kalinowski:with us today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Steve, you and I are old buds.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're just kind of normal guys, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we have all written lots of books and discipleship and making disciples who actually make disciples as the calling is something that's near and dear to all of our hearts.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so I'm really
Caesar Kalinowski:excited to talk about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:and to talk about a book that you've got coming out.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think the day this, this podcast drops will be the actual official release date for this book called Made for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am really excited, just gonna say up front, for the book coming out finally.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's been a lot of work you guys have put into it, and as I've had the pleasure of being able to be connected to that, and some of the edits and all, I'm really, really excited for people to get their hands on that, and more excited to see them start using that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright?
Caesar Kalinowski:So, start off on the left foot, I guess.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's start a little bit about how discipleship
Caesar Kalinowski:is or isn't happening in much of the church today.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, what are your thoughts on that and maybe the effects that a lack of intentional discipleship in community is having or has had on the church and Christians overall?
Steve Saccone:I think in the church there's a gap between, you know, we even use the language of believers in the church, but there's a gap between there's a lot of Christians and not as many disciples.
Steve Saccone:So you can be a Christian without being a disciple.
Steve Saccone:So it's like, yeah, the, the, the book is, is in large part about, okay, what, what does that mean to really be a disciple and a disciple maker, which really go hand in hand.
Steve Saccone:And so, you know, Jesus comes alongside and, and, and he wants us to, and invites us to believe in him.
Steve Saccone:And that's an important foundation for our faith, but it's, it's more.
Steve Saccone:That he's calling us to.
Steve Saccone:And he says, I don't want you to just be a believer.
Steve Saccone:I want you to be a follower.
Steve Saccone:He says, follow me.
Steve Saccone:And so then the question, okay, what is he really inviting us into?
Steve Saccone:What, what life, and it's a life of transformation.
Steve Saccone:It's, it's what he described as life to the fullest or the abundant life.
Steve Saccone:So it's like, what is that life and how do we experience that life?
Steve Saccone:And I think that's, in large part, what's often missing in Christians, everyday Christians, or, or churches.
Steve Saccone:And that's, that's our passion at heart to help people discover that and really not allow there to be quite as much gap.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a great quote in the book that says a lot of what you just said there.
Caesar Kalinowski:It says, uh, somewhere along the way, we have mistakenly made it acceptable in the church to be a Christian, but not a disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:What do you think's led to this?
Caesar Kalinowski:How do we lose the only mission that Jesus gave the church?
Steve Saccone:I think there's the idea that in life we can be convinced of something, but fail to be committed to something, and in this case someone.
Steve Saccone:So we, we know how this works, take it out of the faith realm, and we probably are all convinced that eating healthy is a good thing.
Steve Saccone:right?
Steve Saccone:That we should eat healthier, right?
Steve Saccone:And so, or we should exercise, right?
Steve Saccone:It's like, but are we really committed to doing that, right?
Steve Saccone:That's a whole different conversation or, you know, um, flossing your teeth.
Steve Saccone:I'm guilty of not flossing as much as the dentist tells me to, right?
Steve Saccone:It's like, I'm convinced flossing works or it's important, but do I really do it?
Steve Saccone:You know?
Steve Saccone:So I think, I think it's a heart issue at the end of the day.
Steve Saccone:I mean, it's, it's a difficult journey.
Steve Saccone:Uh, Jesus says, take up your cross and follow me, deny yourself.
Steve Saccone:He says right before that, deny yourself, take up your cross daily and follow me.
Steve Saccone:So it's this daily journey, right?
Steve Saccone:Everyday Disciple, you talk much about this.
Steve Saccone:It's this daily journey of the denial of self, of, of our desires, ambitions are really secondary to the God centered life.
Steve Saccone:And there's kind of lots that emerge from that.
Steve Saccone:But Jesus offers us the best way to be human, and though we might be convinced of that, we're not committed to making that a reality and really believing that all the way through.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And there's a Greek word that we translate the way it literally means a teaching in the most comprehensive sense.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And another definition, it's just a, another definition, it's just a whole way of life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And when you study.
Dr. Kent Ingle:the early believers who followed the way, who followed Jesus and became more like him to literally perpetuate who Christ was and is and continues to this day.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You know, it wasn't just a belief, you know, about, oh, this is what we got to do to get into heaven.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It was a literal way of life every single day.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It was a rhythm.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It was a discipline.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It was always being Self aware, knowing how to manage every single day where you truly reflected who Jesus is all about and was, and so I think it's just a way of doing, being, serving, loving, becoming, that literally will create transformation.
Caesar Kalinowski:The subtitle of the book is Being Disciples, Making Disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:So perfect, perfect, but that implies something because being a disciple, I think, Kent, that's what you were just talking about, and the both of you, and the overarching nature of that being our life, our lifestyle, we're trading in our life for his life, and that's how he gets glorified, which is the whole point of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me hear a little bit
Steve Saccone:about how you.
Steve Saccone:We're discipled who comes to
Caesar Kalinowski:mind in your life where you go not just taught you a bunch of head knowledge But really came alongside
Steve Saccone:Discipled you so that it did for you
Caesar Kalinowski:like it has for me and my family Became part of your lifestyle and and a daily thing not just something You know, our afterlife upgrade that we checked the box on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Who discipled you, and how did that affect your own discipleship?
Steve Saccone:Well, I have a list of people, but I'll name one or two.
Steve Saccone:And I think some of the discipleship of me happened when I didn't know it was happening, first off, right?
Steve Saccone:So it's like, there's a guy, and still a long time friend, really a mentor, named Marty.
Steve Saccone:And I walked into a church one day, and the sum of the story is, he basically kind of put his arm around my shoulder and started investing in me.
Steve Saccone:And he would...
Steve Saccone:Uh, say, Hey, come over for dinner next week, you know, and we'd be having dinner.
Steve Saccone:It's like, I didn't know I was being discipled, you know, it was like, he helped, he asked me questions, uh, that help ultimately me discovering a calling that I had to what I would call vocational ministry.
Steve Saccone:And that's played out in all different ways.
Steve Saccone:You know, I look back, I'm already, and he believed in me, you know, and, and I was experiencing that first hand.
Steve Saccone:I think of someone else who had discipled me.
Steve Saccone:A lady named Cheryl, which was like in my early twenties, and, um, she was more like kind of a, a deeper journey.
Steve Saccone:She, she took me on this journey of, of reflection about my family history and the junk in my life and the emotional unhealth of my life and the brokenness that was everywhere.
Steve Saccone:You know, it's like, and.
Steve Saccone:And the way that she engaged with me, uh, was in all different ways, whether it was like giving me a sign assignment to read a book and come back when you've read the whole book.
Steve Saccone:Right.
Steve Saccone:And we'd come back and, you know, read like a Henry Cloud book changes that heal, right?
Steve Saccone:It's like, man, that was like, that wrecks me.
Steve Saccone:You know, it was like, that's the book I give people when they can't afford counseling.
Steve Saccone:I'd say, but then she would process that all through me.
Steve Saccone:And so that was kind of like some of the deeper journey stuff.
Steve Saccone:And, and one more quick one is, is people that, I had a few people that discipled me in kind of spiritual practices and spiritual disciplines.
Steve Saccone:One of them was a peer.
Steve Saccone:It was a roommate in college that introduced me to really the whole idea.
Steve Saccone:I mean, I knew about like reading the Bible and praying I'm supposed to do that, but there's other spiritual practices that I've latched onto, you could say, that have helped me experience God in a whole different way.
Steve Saccone:So those are a few examples.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a bunch of that in the book too.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's part of what I love about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's a book about discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's the 12 things you must learn about the Bible and God, you know, it really does take it down.
Caesar Kalinowski:to that much more daily practice, relational practice understanding.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we'll talk a little bit more about that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kent, how about you?
Dr. Kent Ingle:Well, I can go back to when I was in high school, uh, and the church that I attended, uh, I'll never forget on a Sunday, uh, my pastor saw me in the, in the hallway and said, Hey Kent, I've watched, I've been watching your life and, and, and I can tell that you have some, some gifts in your life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Uh, he says, I really see a gift of leadership and I'm I'm thinking, wow, I'm just in high school, you know, I'm thinking, wow, he, he, so he noticed and he, and he said, I'll tell you what, let's talk to your parents.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I'd love to have you come down one day a week and, and I just want to invest in your life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And so we ended up, I'd come down one day a week and, and just practical things he would do.
Dr. Kent Ingle:He'd take me on.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Hospital calls and, and visits.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And he showed me how he prepared his weekly messages and, and things like that.
Dr. Kent Ingle:But one of the things he taught me, and this is the very first time I ever heard the concept divine design about how God has uniquely made you.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And he has a specific plan for your life and a specific purpose.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And he said this to me that I'll never forget.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And from that day forward.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I begin to apply that in a practical way in my life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:He said, if you will always follow your design, you will always be doing something that is filled with great fulfillment and value and significance.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And God will use you to make a difference.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And, and I said, well, how, how do you do that?
Dr. Kent Ingle:And, and then he just walked through things like, you know, take time to really reflect on what are you passionate about?
Dr. Kent Ingle:What are things that you enjoy doing?
Dr. Kent Ingle:If you constantly do that.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It's going to help you to know maybe things that you can step into and do and try.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And he said, look at your gifts, you know, you know, there's all kinds of gift tests and things like that that can kind of give you an indication.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And he said, by the way, he said, God can change your gifts at any given season or any given time.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So you want to make sure you have a way.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And what is going on in my life right now?
Dr. Kent Ingle:What kind of gifts do I have at the moment?
Dr. Kent Ingle:He taught me how to look at experiences, bad, difficult, good, spiritual, you know, all those things, because those experiences, oftentimes, God leads or allows in your life because He's shaping you to, to make an impact.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And again, going back to what the title of the book is Made For More, because He's always Making and using you for so much more than you can imagine.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And so I just remember utilizing that in my life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And, you know, he always talked about, think about the people that, that God puts in your pathway, even on a daily basis.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Who did you talk to today?
Dr. Kent Ingle:What, what were the conversations about?
Dr. Kent Ingle:What can you learn from it?
Dr. Kent Ingle:And so out of that, that began to shape my life in such a way that as I begin to move through different.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Catalytic events in my life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I could see how God was speaking to me or how God was changing me or how he was transforming me when opportunities came up for, you know, vocational work.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I could say yes or no pretty much immediate because I had built in a system that allowed me a framework.
Dr. Kent Ingle:that allowed me to really know who I am and the way God designed me.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And that's a continual process.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And that's why we say this is a day by day journey.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It's not just a one time event or acquisition of certain knowledge and that's it.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You know, you, you're learning, discovering, developing every single day to, to really live the full potential that God's made you for.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow, I love that, and that all sounds so familiar to our listeners, I'll bet, cause we're like reading the same emails here, or drinking the same, uh, water, but, uh, I think that we underestimate, uh, a lot of things when it comes to discipleship the way you guys just both described, and we're fortunate enough to have experienced, and time is a big one of those.
Caesar Kalinowski:This takes time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everything you described was people giving you time, not the 101, 201, 301 class, class.
Caesar Kalinowski:And now you're discipled because you made three of those at least right all right pretty good job You know what's now boom you're discipled that this takes time.
Caesar Kalinowski:This really really does What are some other
Steve Saccone:things you think that, that are commonly
Caesar Kalinowski:misunderstood or underestimated when it comes to truly making a disciple in all of life that's gonna make more disciples?
Dr. Kent Ingle:Well, I, I think first and foremost when, when I think of discipleship and, and really I think what we convey in this book, it is relational discipleship is a relational aspect of how you do life with people.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I mean, nothing is accomplished without people.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You know working together, building relationships.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And so, first and foremost, it's your discipline in, man, spending time with Jesus.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You know, everyday creating kind of the things that help you to be aware of his truth, and how that truth shapes your life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:call and, and your purpose and your meaning.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And then, and then doing it with people because then God puts people in your pathway in a relational way that will guide you and encourage you and inform you.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I mean, I, I remember when, you know, I spent my first 10 years career in television, sports.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And, and all of a sudden through a catalytic event, probably one of the most difficult events that took place in my life, God spoke to me about a call into ministry leadership.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I'll never forget again, another mentoring pastor calls me up out of the blue, doesn't know.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Anything about what I'm going through at this time in my life or how God's dealing with me, and he calls me out of the blue, but it came out of relationship.
Dr. Kent Ingle:He said, God's speaking to you about going into ministry.
Dr. Kent Ingle:How did he know that God was using him to guide me and shape me, but it was relationship.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And that's why to me.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It's so important that you understand relational dynamics, and that's, to me, significant in being a true disciple of Christ.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So that's another element, and then, I mean, you could go into disciplines, I mean, all kinds of things that help to create that.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Yeah, and I,
Steve Saccone:I have been drawn even recently to the idea when, when Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ.
Steve Saccone:Yeah.
Steve Saccone:Now, if you really think about that and get honest with that, that's a little bit scary, right?
Steve Saccone:You're saying, Hey, if you want to learn to follow Christ, follow me and I'll take you there.
Steve Saccone:It's like, well, it's arrogant of him to say that.
Steve Saccone:Right.
Steve Saccone:Kind of initially, maybe what it looks like, but, but what that's done in my own life.
Steve Saccone:And this is, I think, an unrest.
Steve Saccone:It's like, it's like I realize in my better moments kind of revolves around the word dependence that how dependent I need to be on God, because I'm not really saying follow me.
Steve Saccone:I'm, I'm really saying, follow me in my attempt and striving to follow Jesus.
Steve Saccone:I'm going to mess up, but I'll take you along with me and we'll kind of journey together.
Steve Saccone:And I'm going to share some of my own struggles and vulnerabilities too.
Steve Saccone:And I hope that you will too.
Steve Saccone:And it becomes this relational journey.
Steve Saccone:That I'm not arrogant to say, like, oh, I got it all figured out.
Steve Saccone:That's not the heart, obviously, of that phrase or verse or, or what you're even saying.
Steve Saccone:So, I think that's underestimated.
Steve Saccone:People get intimidated by that.
Steve Saccone:They have fears about that.
Steve Saccone:They...
Steve Saccone:You know, they believe certain sort of audio tracks in their mind that they shouldn't do that, but that is the way of discipleship, right?
Steve Saccone:That we're, yeah, we're following Jesus, but like we're doing this in community.
Steve Saccone:And so some people are gonna invest in us and help us to be, you know, better disciples, so to speak.
Steve Saccone:And we're doing the same for others.
Steve Saccone:And that, that is the journey.
Steve Saccone:And, and the last thing I'll say about that is It takes me also to the place over and over again and reminds me of the discipleship and in its essence is about who we're becoming.
Steve Saccone:And if we're not in, if we're not in pursuit of becoming the right kind of person, maybe we don't need to be saying, follow me as I follow Christ.
Steve Saccone:Again, that's not perfection, but that's, we're in learning mode.
Steve Saccone:We're in humility mode.
Steve Saccone:We're in, we're, we're teachable.
Steve Saccone:We're, we're truly following Christ with devotion and passion and, and it's all consuming.
Steve Saccone:It's, it's who we are.
Steve Saccone:It's how we live.
Steve Saccone:And, and we're seeing evidence of the fruit and, and the transformation that God is doing.
Steve Saccone:And that's what we're kind of saying, Hey, look, God's working in my life.
Steve Saccone:He can work in yours too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Paul
Dr. Kent Ingle:also said, I'm sorry, Kent, go ahead.
Dr. Kent Ingle:No, I was just going to say, it's also essential, I think, to understand, and we talk about it, how to live in the grace of God, because discipleship is, is that awareness, uh, that our life is not based on.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Performance or even, even morality, but it's a life rooted in the gospel of grace and how God leads us as a human longing to be more like him reflecting, you know, like the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, self control, the things that are so important to model and lead people in, you know, humility.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You mentioned, I mean, all those things that are, are so important in that relational dynamic that creates that sense of growth, change, and transformation.
Caesar Kalinowski:I
Steve Saccone:often wonder in church, in preaching,
Caesar Kalinowski:in Christian life that's somewhat segmented to maybe a couple hours a week largely, how much we miss that grace, Kent.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:That this is a life of grace from every heartbeat forward, because we don't really even fully know why they keep beating, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because of God's grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:But to notice and practice, we do this in our family, we do this in, in our communities, the people
Steve Saccone:we coach, we actually rehearse, we share
Caesar Kalinowski:evidences of that grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, Jesus taught his disciples And they said, Hey, teach us to pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:He goes, okay, first off it's father.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's relational and it's communal because father, we're same father.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we're family.
Steve Saccone:But then he goes, ask him to, it would be on earth as it is in
Caesar Kalinowski:heaven.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, what's it like in heaven?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's full of grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's perfect.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's generous.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's close to him.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's open.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no fear.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to expect that now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus said, he didn't say, well, beg dad for that, but that won't be until after you die.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, that's not what he says.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's not what they experienced with him.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think we do miss that, that that grace life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, let me, let me, if it's okay, let me dive us deep into the book a little bit here.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've been kind of glancing off of it, but I'm really intrigued by parts of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is really a, a playbook.
Caesar Kalinowski:We even MISSIO publisher calls it a playbook.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's really a guide.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's quite unique.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, I mentioned earlier, that's what I love about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not just, here's a bunch of stuff to know about the Bible, or, you know, here's how long your quiet times should be, or it's way beyond that.
Caesar Kalinowski:What could a reader, what will readers of Made for More anticipate or expect as they move through the book?
Caesar Kalinowski:This thing's laid out a little bit differently.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just give us a quick overview, if you
Steve Saccone:wouldn't mind.
Steve Saccone:The book is laid out uniquely in that there's, uh, there's six chapters and in each chapter, there's seven, essentially, readings or activities, you could say.
Steve Saccone:So, like, day one is preparation, day two is study, day three is change.
Steve Saccone:So, day three, for example, is, is what needs to change in your life.
Steve Saccone:Now, you've prepared your heart and the theme.
Steve Saccone:You've studied it, you've meditated on it, maybe there's a Greek word in there, you're doing a little deeper Bible study.
Steve Saccone:By day three, you're like, alright, what needs to change in my heart, in my life?
Steve Saccone:Day four is about action, so there's always something to do.
Steve Saccone:Discipleship is about, alright, what are we going to apply, right?
Steve Saccone:This is just about gaining knowledge.
Steve Saccone:Feet
Caesar Kalinowski:on the ground with that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, yeah, and
Steve Saccone:then day five is called community.
Steve Saccone:So we want this not to just be an experience or a book that somebody goes through as an individual.
Steve Saccone:Other people to be part of it.
Steve Saccone:So we encourage people as they read, uh, to dive in with others, right?
Steve Saccone:You're reading it together.
Steve Saccone:You're meeting maybe once a week if that works in your rhythm.
Steve Saccone:And then, then you go to day six and it's kind of a refocus and day seven is what we call rest.
Steve Saccone:But you're, you're carving out 15 or 20 minutes in a given day.
Steve Saccone:And you know, we, we all have read books and we read one chapter one month and two the next.
Steve Saccone:And then six months later we pick it up again.
Steve Saccone:And I get that.
Steve Saccone:I've done that too, you know.
Steve Saccone:Our hope and desire for this book, as people walk through it, is that they would dive deep for six weeks and, and really enter in, in a way with community and in, in all the different aspects of discipleship that are woven into the book.
Steve Saccone:So there's a lot of intentionality, there's structure, not everyone's like super structured like that, but we want to be intentional with everything we do as people kind of work through the content.
Steve Saccone:And our hope is, ultimately, that people do experience transformation, that maybe even God surprises them.
Steve Saccone:Uh, as, as God speaks to them and they encounter God.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Yeah, I mean, if you, if you will give yourself to this process from practically speaking, if you do it for every day for six weeks, I mean, after 42 days of applying what you're, you know, you're learning, we think you will experience change.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You'll see significant growth.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I think as you study the word, it's the promise of the scriptures.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It's the longing and the hope for.
Dr. Kent Ingle:for, uh, you know, relationship with Jesus to be incredible, powerful.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And then that translates to how you, you serve others and, and impact their lives.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Uh, so yeah, so when you think about it, it's all about preparation, it's study, it's change, it's action, it's community, it's focus, and it's rest in who you are in Christ and what he's made you for.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Those
Caesar Kalinowski:sound like beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:spiritual disciplines to me, or rhythms.
Caesar Kalinowski:They really do right there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and I, I, I know there's going to be some people going, well, they're trying to sell a book here.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to transform your life in 42 days.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but hold on a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's been said that if you want to
Steve Saccone:create new
Caesar Kalinowski:habits, you gotta, you need to apply yourself, give yourself in faith and trust for 30 days, is what they usually say.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this is a little bit longer than that.
Caesar Kalinowski:But also, I would want to
Steve Saccone:challenge our regular listeners to say, hey, Have you never been on a weekend
Caesar Kalinowski:retreat where you feel like that was a life changing couple of days?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or have you ever been on a missions trip, gone out in the field for 7 days, 12 days, whatever, and come back, and you're very different, like your commitment, some understanding of who God's made you to be, and what your purpose is, and His grace for you?
Caesar Kalinowski:Of course you can.
Steve Saccone:And I just want to challenge
Caesar Kalinowski:folks to, to
Steve Saccone:trust this process.
Caesar Kalinowski:These, these weeks have all been very meticulously thought out.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's questions, there's journaling, it goes deeper, there's rest, there's community.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you'll give yourself to that with a handful of other people, you will, I, I know that God will move in that and you will not only experience personal transformation, but you're going to be helping others do that as well and set up some new rhythms that I hope, I believe, can continue on into the rest of your life together and as a family and as a
Dr. Kent Ingle:couple.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Yeah.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Yeah.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So good.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So, this
Caesar Kalinowski:first chapter, the first week, is called An Unusual Choice, and by the way, I love the chapter titles, the whole posture with which you've written at Made for More is beautiful, I mean I don't know that we're going to have time to go through each of these weeks, but uh, you know, the first week's called An Unusual Choice, and the second one's An Unwavering Connection, An Uncommon Pursuit, An Unexpected Calling, and I'm, and it's just, I love it, and it's, oh, it just gripped my heart right from the get go.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, uh, that first week, seems to set the foundation for the rest of the book, that unusual choice.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's that foundation?
Steve Saccone:Yeah, the foundation, really, of the whole book is really founded in the first century culture, where Jesus stepped into, he embraced some aspects of the discipleship culture that existed with rabbis and students or disciples, but then he flipped some of it upside down.
Steve Saccone:And so, uh, he came along and, you know, we go more elaborately in the first chapter in this, but just a quick snapshot.
Steve Saccone:It's like the culture, you had to kind of earn your way with the rabbi so that you could become one of the students of that rabbi.
Steve Saccone:So you were trying to prove yourself to him.
Steve Saccone:You were, you know, and he wanted the best of the best, right?
Steve Saccone:Well, Jesus came and one aspect that he flipped upside down was like, no, no, no.
Steve Saccone:That's not the way I'm gonna go about being a rabbi and he was a rabbi.
Steve Saccone:He was other things too.
Steve Saccone:He was the risen Savior.
Steve Saccone:He was the Christ.
Steve Saccone:He was the Messiah, but he was a rabbi, a teacher, right?
Steve Saccone:And so he went to What, what many would say are not the ideals, right?
Steve Saccone:They're the, the misfits, the, the, the tax collector, and he, he believed in those people and called them to change or to be changed, really, you could say.
Steve Saccone:And so.
Steve Saccone:That's really the foundation of the book, that Jesus came in and what we need to understand for us and where we take our reader is understanding when he said, follow me, he chose them.
Steve Saccone:They were an unlikely choice.
Steve Saccone:Most likely they had not been selected by other rabbis in that culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:I like to call them the 12
Steve Saccone:knuckleheads.
Steve Saccone:Just read the book.
Steve Saccone:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Steve Saccone:So he chose those knuckleheads.
Steve Saccone:And he said, I want you to follow me and I'm going to make you into something.
Steve Saccone:I'm going to make you Fisher's of men.
Steve Saccone:I want, I want to invite you into a different way to live.
Steve Saccone:And of course we all know that Jesus took those 12 and flipped the world then upside down, you could say, and created not only transformation in their life, created transformation in the world, in that culture, and really in human history.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Yeah.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I think the greatest spiritual challenge in our day and age is to make ourselves available.
Dr. Kent Ingle:We just need to be available to building friendship with God and relationship with Him in a consistent everyday way.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I think the main narrative in our lives right now always seems to be about busyness, you know, schedules and events and I got to see this and that and you know, all of that.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And, and so unless we establish.
Dr. Kent Ingle:An alternative way of doing day to day living.
Dr. Kent Ingle:We are on our way to being overwhelmed by all the demands and distractions of the world.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So, if we don't slow down, and I, and, and that's one of the big.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Takeaways, if you will, enough to foster our friendship and relationship with God, we will lose our way.
Dr. Kent Ingle:No matter what our commitment is, we say, Oh yeah, I want to make sure I, but it's actually that day by day, you know, rhythm of, of man, I just need to listen, discern, soak in, um, reflect, uh, enough in a way that every day I can build and get closer to Jesus in.
Dr. Kent Ingle:What he wants to say to me and what he wants to do with my life and how he wants to use me and how he wants to build relationships or, you know, around me and, and so, yeah, this is why discipline is so important.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And we talk a lot about discipline in this book in terms of how we follow Jesus and, and get to know him.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So, yeah, that's important too.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It's a little
Caesar Kalinowski:convicting there, Kent.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a little convicting because I think we make We make a commitment
Caesar Kalinowski:to or a
Caesar Kalinowski:connection a deeper connection to and feel I'm so committed, but it ultimately I'll just speak honestly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes I do a heart assessment, maybe like I'm doing while I'm listening to you right now, and I go, has my commitment to
Caesar Kalinowski:Christ shifted to a commitment to ministry
Caesar Kalinowski:busyness, or a commitment to church attendance, or serving in the men's ministry, or children's ministry.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, we've been doing children's ministry longer than anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jewels in our crown, you know, and, but where's your heart?
Caesar Kalinowski:And do you still, are you giving the time for that relationship, that commitment to deepen?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I'll be honest, I, I, I slip on and off that path.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really, really do.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I don't know how to be a disciple without that, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:It just becomes a head.
Caesar Kalinowski:It becomes a mental ascent to.
Caesar Kalinowski:A bunch of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kind of like the flossing thing, Steve, you know,
Dr. Kent Ingle:you know, I, you know, I think of like the concept of prayer, you know, I think sometimes we get it wrong.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Oh, we've got to create a certain time for prayer, or we've even how we posture ourselves in prayer or prayer is, is simply it's in my life how I have able to grow and be discipled in it is just a frame of mind
Dr. Kent Ingle:I mean, I'm constantly thinking it's practicing the presence of Jesus wherever you go, whatever you're doing.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So, yeah, I mean, I'm just, I'm just thinking when I'm walking or even in the midst of a conversation with someone, I'm, I'm thinking to my head, okay, Jesus helped me to, to, you know, respond to, to, to encourage to, it's just a constant.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And to me, and that's what I think of Pray Without Ceasing.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I mean, it's, you know, that's what it's all about.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And that's a, that's a way to get close to
Steve Saccone:Jesus.
Steve Saccone:And I resonate with that two words that I carry with me as a disciple.
Steve Saccone:are, you said one of them, are, are, can I be attentive to God and responsive to what he's doing, right?
Steve Saccone:I'm attentive to God's voice or his activity in my own heart, in my own life, but also all around me.
Steve Saccone:And then how am I going to respond to what he's saying or doing or what I sense or maybe an opportunity I need to step into.
Steve Saccone:So if I can live attentive to him, his presence and responsive to him, even when I mess up and I do, and we all do, and we're human, that makes sense.
Steve Saccone:Part of what makes us human.
Steve Saccone:It's like, okay, well, I'm going to be attentive to God.
Steve Saccone:What is God saying?
Steve Saccone:Cause I used to get so mad at myself like I mess up I
Steve Saccone:probably still do sometimes.
Steve Saccone:still,
Caesar Kalinowski:We think very highly of ourselves,
Steve Saccone:yea, we do right haha.
Steve Saccone:It's called ego but I get irritable at my son and I yell at him, and I get to harsh with him, lets say.
Steve Saccone:It's like, okay, God, what do you want to say to me?
Steve Saccone:What do you want to do to me?
Steve Saccone:What does that reveal about what maybe needs to change in my heart or in my life?
Steve Saccone:And I think that's helpful to me.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're here talking about Made for More today, but I read a book called The Cure, who we love, and in it they give an illustration of when you see the pile of your sin in your life, you know, even if you see it, well, it's mostly behind or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which side of that sin pile are you on and which side is Jesus on?
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you see him on the other side, you're missing it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You don't understand grace yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's on the same side with you, like what you were just saying there, Steve.
Caesar Kalinowski:To get to, instead of hide from him for a week or
Steve Saccone:two to prove you're a good dad,
Caesar Kalinowski:invite him into that bad parenting moment and be
Steve Saccone:responsive to that.
Steve Saccone:A mentor in
Caesar Kalinowski:my life, you were talking about the people who mentored and discipled you, Pastor Johnny Jenkins and his wife Ruth.
Caesar Kalinowski:They took my wife and I and our kids all under their wing and did this real time with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he taught us so
Steve Saccone:much about that.
Steve Saccone:He
Caesar Kalinowski:said, if you're going to parent well and you're going to disciple your kids in that parenting, because guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's your best opportunity, you're going to do an awful lot of seeking your kids forgiveness and bringing them into that process so they, in turn, learn how to do the same.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they don't fear God, or he's, oh, he's ticked now,
Steve Saccone:that means I won't, you know, I won't
Caesar Kalinowski:get a hit at the baseball game, or I won't get that raise, or that sale, or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:And uh, he's on the same side with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:He already knew and already forgave that and died for that sin, so, um, let's have that relational, that relationship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I would love to be able to
Steve Saccone:just unpack
Caesar Kalinowski:every chapter, but that's what the book is for.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I've already said how much I love the posture of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Before we start to put a wrap up on this, is there any one
Steve Saccone:thing, let me
Caesar Kalinowski:just real quick, you know, it was unusual choice, an unwavering connection, an uncommon pursuit, that's week three.
Caesar Kalinowski:An Unexpected Calling, Week 4, An Unselfish Heart, Week 5, and then an Unstoppable Mission, Week 6.
Caesar Kalinowski:Any little last minute notes or just like real quick, let me just put a word about one of those before we start to wrap up.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Well, for me, it's, I hope that it will build that relational focus on how to live differently by applying what is learned because you can be committed to learning and be a lifelong learner, but you want to take what you're learning.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And how does that affect my life?
Dr. Kent Ingle:Every single day.
Dr. Kent Ingle:How is it going to change me?
Dr. Kent Ingle:And so as you reflect even through this book, you're going to have What I call it, you're gonna have game changing moments as you read where all of a sudden and that's the other thing I mean grateful for the Holy Spirit who can take the words on a printed page and make them come to life in such a way that it radically changes how you approach your day, how you approach to doing life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And of course, in this, we're talking about how you approach relationship with Jesus, how you approach relationship with, you know, coming alongside the privilege, uh, for those you have the privilege to serve and, and encourage and empower and just come alongside.
Dr. Kent Ingle:So I just, I just, yeah, that, that to me is, is so important that you will experience not just gaining a new knowledge, but then how to apply that knowledge.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I go back to this whole discipline because this is a self management issue in many ways, for me, at least, you know, I look back to my life 30 years ago when I was diagnosed with.
Dr. Kent Ingle:type 2 diabetes.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And the doctor said, if you don't change your life, in other words, he was telling him, if you don't change your habits, if you don't change and let this really sink in and transform you, you will die.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And I literally had to apply the knowledge of what it means to eat the right things.
Dr. Kent Ingle:The knowledge of, Do them, apply them and see the work.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Change my life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And in the midst of it, when you first go home and I got to do all this and how am I going to do all this and cannot, you know, but as you get into it and and you apply it, Then you start to see the results.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It gets exciting and you want to do more and you want to and and that's what this Is all about you as you get into this Discipleship development and growth you're gonna want to do so much more because God has made you for so much more So that's yeah, that's a powerful thing.
Steve Saccone:Yeah, and I think the concept of apprenticeship is central but yet uncommon in the church.
Steve Saccone:It's central biblically, it's central when it comes to like first century culture understanding of being a disciple, yet, you know, we don't necessarily use that language or think of it like that, so I think part of what we hope as someone journeys through this book is, is in a way the, the idea of discipleship, and you do a great job of this, Caesar, uh, in your content and podcasts and writing, is we have to deconstruct Really what people think discipleship even is and it's not what most people think it is quite frankly, you know You're right.
Steve Saccone:We're not saying we have all the answers and we're you know, but it's like We have to reconstruct the right definition of it according to Jesus, according to the scriptures, and re look at that.
Steve Saccone:So we come in with an open mind.
Steve Saccone:So, so to be an apprentice is, is to link yourself with a person, to learn to do what they do, like they do it, and ultimately, when we're linked to Jesus, to become like Him.
Steve Saccone:And so that's what apprenticeship is all about.
Steve Saccone:So I imagine the day...
Steve Saccone:And, and pray for and hope for the day when we're a church not just filled with Christians, we're a church filled with disciples.
Steve Saccone:You know, that, that, that so called Christians, or culture Christians, or casual Christians, or, or non Christians for that matter, are actually moving toward what it really means to be a disciple.
Steve Saccone:That they're really accepting the invitation of Jesus.
Steve Saccone:They've been chosen.
Steve Saccone:You know, the Bible says, Jesus said, you know, um, you didn't choose me, I chose you, right?
Steve Saccone:I chose you.
Steve Saccone:Like, I believe in you.
Steve Saccone:I have a dream and I have designs for your life.
Steve Saccone:I have a divine destiny, uh, for you.
Steve Saccone:I have a purpose for you.
Steve Saccone:I have meaning for you.
Steve Saccone:And if we really believe, I mean, people all over, like, every human is looking for More joy and more peace and more goodness in their life and more love, you know, it's like well They just don't look to Jesus to find it But Jesus offers it and so like that gets back to like like deconstructing sometimes for non believers believers a lot of people And then reconstructing the right view gives us a whole different way of viewing Jesus, interacting with Jesus, and then we start to realize, oh, what he offers us is something nothing else matches.
Steve Saccone:That he offers us the best way to be human, the best way to live, and it's a path to joy, and freedom, and love, and peace, and so many other things.
Steve Saccone:And that's a beautiful, wonderful thing.
Steve Saccone:He doesn't just offer us eternal life, although he does, and I'm forever grateful for that, I think we all are.
Steve Saccone:Um, he offers us something right here and right now to begin to experience in this world.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that sure sounds like good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like you might even call it the good news right there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, that's a good.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:As is our tradition, we like to wrap up
Caesar Kalinowski:every episode here of the Everyday Disciple
Caesar Kalinowski:Podcast with the big three takeaways.
Caesar Kalinowski:That might be a little
Caesar Kalinowski:trickier today than some days.
Caesar Kalinowski:There was a lot of really good stuff in there and I'm excited.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna ask my listeners, can you hear the excitement coming off of Kent and Steve for the book, but also just for the transformation that they really believe that God's gonna Do as you go through these things with others in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, I don't know, give me what you think
Caesar Kalinowski:off the top of your head.
Caesar Kalinowski:What
Caesar Kalinowski:do you think the big three takeaways from what we just talked about
Caesar Kalinowski:and disciple making and being
Caesar Kalinowski:made for more would be?
Caesar Kalinowski:If that's
Caesar Kalinowski:possible,
Dr. Kent Ingle:a big takeaway for me is the whole thing is all about.
Dr. Kent Ingle:This is an opportunity to step into holistic living, holistic development in your life.
Dr. Kent Ingle:This is an opportunity to grow in the image of Jesus.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And it's a reminder of who he is and his love for you.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And the fact that he literally.
Dr. Kent Ingle:He created you, designed you, because you have a purpose, as it says, you are made for so much, and we lean on Him, it's an opportunity to lean on Him as provider, as counselor, as father, I think of Proverbs 3, 5, is all about learning how to trust in Him, learning how to lean on Him, not your own understanding, but your acknowledging Him, and what does it say He will do in your life every single day if you do that?
Dr. Kent Ingle:He will direct your paths and, and that's what's exciting about discipleship.
Dr. Kent Ingle:You, you, you lean on him and your paths are, are kind of ordained for you.
Dr. Kent Ingle:That includes relationships.
Dr. Kent Ingle:That includes the way you serve.
Dr. Kent Ingle:That includes the way you just do life on a daily basis.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And that's what will transform you as the Holy Spirit works on you.
Caesar Kalinowski:What a wonderful first of the big three.
Steve Saccone:Yeah.
Steve Saccone:Yeah, that is so good.
Steve Saccone:What do you got number two, I, I would say Discipleship is relational, and we separate that sometimes, weirdly as that may sound, but it's rooted in our relationship with God, of course, but it's, it's community oriented, too.
Steve Saccone:And like I was saying earlier, it's like sometimes you don't even know discipleship's happening.
Steve Saccone:Right.
Steve Saccone:And I know I've been around people, you know there's people that you're like, That person resembles Jesus more than anybody else I know, right?
Steve Saccone:I've had a few of those people in my life.
Steve Saccone:Or, or they just resemble a quality, you know?
Steve Saccone:And you find yourself, maybe not even consciously acting like that, or, or, I've had a friend in my life who asked really amazing questions, seemingly every time we were around, you know, we were, I was around them.
Steve Saccone:And I started to practice that more, not quite as good as them, but I, so it's like, it was relationally.
Steve Saccone:It was a relational context that I was being shaped and taking on a quality that helped me become a different kind of person, you know?
Steve Saccone:And so that, that's one aspect of it.
Steve Saccone:So there's two for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's two.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Third one.
Dr. Kent Ingle:I think a third one is all about learning how discipleship is how we treat our team, those around us...
Dr. Kent Ingle:how we lead others.
Dr. Kent Ingle:It's important that we cultivate a heart of humility and service and make our main priority to genuinely love and care for and serve others as Jesus did.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And we must remember in life and it's the way God designed life is we, He works through people.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And we must remember that we can't do everything in on our own strength, but we need others.
Dr. Kent Ingle:And this is why discipleship is so important to be a good follower of Jesus.
Dr. Kent Ingle:Translate in how you care for others and disciple others.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's an awful lot to chew on.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am very excited for this book again, as I've said, and I hope that people will take advantage of that and get the book right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know that there are some resources being developed for small group study and some goodies to go along with that and outlines and all kinds of stuff that's coming along.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm excited to be able to get that to you as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can download the Big Three as always by going to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash Big Three.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash Big Three.
Caesar Kalinowski:And any links we have for the opportunity to download those resources, get a hold of those videos and all, they'll all be in the big three and also on the show notes for this episode.
Caesar Kalinowski:Also, you can get this book as of your hearing today by going to missiopublishing.
Caesar Kalinowski:com.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll be probably right on the cover there, but if not, just go under books and look up Made for More, missiopublishing.
Caesar Kalinowski:com.
Caesar Kalinowski:As you know, they sponsor the Everyday Disciple Podcast, so.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're excited for that and grateful for their help in keeping the show going.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I hope you'll get that book.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can also find it on Amazon and pretty much anywhere books are found.
Caesar Kalinowski:So pick up a copy of Made for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:Better yet, don't just pick up a copy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Figure out a group of people to do this with and get yourself a box of those.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, all right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Dr.
Caesar Kalinowski:Ken Ingle, thank you so much.
Caesar Kalinowski:Steve Saccone, good to see you again, brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really
Caesar Kalinowski:appreciate your time and your hearts in all this and all the hard work you've put into Made for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:I look forward to all that God's going to do with that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm really excited.
Caesar Kalinowski:So thanks for being with us today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Blessings.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Steve Saccone:Thanks.
Steve Saccone:Thanks, Caesar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was so fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think I could talk to those two men all day.
Caesar Kalinowski:Their passion for discipleship is both very evident and it's contagious.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cranked me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cranked me up.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really hope that you'll grab a few friends or the folks in your small group or missional community.
Caesar Kalinowski:And get started going through Made for More right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Six weeks in community together, a little bit each day.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm really excited about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I can't say that about a lot of things, but this one really for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Again, you can get that book by going to missiopublishing.
Caesar Kalinowski:com or maybe even easier, go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash Made for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've kind of made it all one word.
Caesar Kalinowski:M A D E for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:Made for More.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's it for today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thanks for being with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:I hope this encouraged you to go deeper into your lifestyle of discipleship and mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:What a privilege.
Caesar Kalinowski:What a privilege that we get to live this way and raise our families and lead our churches into this Kingdom Now life for God's glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show, and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Announcer:Can You Be a Christian But Not a Disciple?