Living on Mission When Your Spouse Is Not Into It
Discipleship starts in your home and works its way out through relationships. So our families and marriages need to be the “red hot center” of discipleship that we invite others into. But what happens if you’re trying to live on Mission and your spouse is not into it?
This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we talk about the challenges that come up when we are not on the same page as a couple when it comes to discipleship and mission. Whether a not-yet-believer or your spouse is just not into this “missional thing”, we’ll help you break through and live the life you’ve been called to live!
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- What the Bible teaches about having an “unbelieving” spouse.
- Why no Christians get a pass on making disciples.
- How to start where you’re at, with what you CAN do, rather than focusing on the limitations.
- 10+ ideas to get you started living on Mission even if your spouse is not into it.
From this episode:
“If your Believing spouse is choosing to live without a sense of missional impulse, not interested in making disciples of Jesus, it is often either ignorance, because the church doesn’t really teach this a whole lot, or some sort of unbelief that’s keeping them from this life.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Coaching with Caesar and Tina in Discipleship and Missional living.
Get Caesar’s book, Transformed: Discipleship and Mission as a Lifestyle HERE.
Discipleship and Missional Resources
In light of today’s topics, you might find these posts and videos helpful:
How Do Introverted People Stay Engaged in a Missional Life?
Transcript
When you're facing a situation where you're trying to live on mission and make disciples as a lifestyle in your home, start where you're at and with what you can do rather than focusing on your limitations.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship starts in your home and it works its way out through your relationships.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I just suggest that you focus on your own home and table and your kids first.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how we coach all the folks we coach to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's got to start there and do the outward missions with others and other families and community that are together, making disciples of friends and your people of peace.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, Thanksgiving's coming.
Heath Hollensbe:What are you guys doing?
Heath Hollensbe:I know you guys usually do the big Team K thing, but you staying in town?
Heath Hollensbe:You guys renting a beach loft somewhere?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, we're staying in town And it's gonna be a little different this year because some of Team K, at least DNA bearing Team K Yeah, are gonna be out of town and so we're gonna be shy a few members,
Caesar Kalinowski:. So yeah, we're looking to fill those spaces, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:With more, or, you know, additional team K members, but no, it's always a big thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And for us, it's not usually a meal.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's at least a day.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like Christmas has gone to three or four days.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, yeah, so it's well, cause people are all coming and going and there's different time and people of peace don't all fit into our schedules and we'll say, well, we're going to do a brunch.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so anyway, so yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it though.
Caesar Kalinowski:How about you?
Heath Hollensbe:Yep, staying local.
Heath Hollensbe:We always do that the tree after the day of Thanksgiving.
Heath Hollensbe:And so we got a little rhythm
Caesar Kalinowski:We actually have our holiday lights up on the house already the party.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we want them up for Thanksgiving So this year's not just like a week before Christmas or something and you
Heath Hollensbe:do take them down throughout the year, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, yeah, they're
Caesar Kalinowski:not leftovers from no, they're not Yeah, not like my aunt whose Christmas tree had been up for like 35 years, you know, it's so funny
Heath Hollensbe:I was talking to a co worker literally Uh, three or four months ago, and he still had his tree, when we video called him, he still has it, he lives in San Diego, he leaves his tree up all year, cause he's like, I
Caesar Kalinowski:don't want to take it down.
Caesar Kalinowski:I kind of think Tina would if I let her.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really?
Caesar Kalinowski:But let her like, I mean, you know, in charge, you know what I'm saying, it's like, if I didn't have objections, She might do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It might just drift and drift, like for a really long time.
Caesar Kalinowski:You should just let it go in here and see where it ends up.
Caesar Kalinowski:She just, no, I don't know, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:She kinda likes twinkle lights.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, if every tree in life had little white sparkly lights, it would make her happy.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's like a Hallmark movie,
Heath Hollensbe:man.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, today we are talking, uh, about living on mission even when your spouse isn't into it, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:I know that was kind of a hard break into this, but I'm super excited to talk about this because oftentimes I know you get questions.
Heath Hollensbe:I get questions from people saying how do I live more missionally in my life or in my neighborhood?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, but it does seem often that we hear that there's this lack of agreement and marriages when it comes to this topic Yeah, I actually had a guy on Facebook messaging me the other day just saying like I'm all in my wife's not
Caesar Kalinowski:at all Yep, I had someone stand up at the conference.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was at last week teaching same same story They're like a hundred percent bought in Husband's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I wonder,
Heath Hollensbe:I think maybe it's because it's, you know, this missional life is really an all in sort of
Caesar Kalinowski:lifestyle, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's a big part of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know, it's not a one size fits all problem or solution.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think as we talked about this and as we thought through this, I think there's two possible issues here.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this is how we're gonna have to sort of subdivide and conquer on this if you will.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think you've got where you've got an unbelieving spouse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:So obviously they're not like all about making disciples of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so that's one sort of situation that I'm sure some of our listeners today are saying, yep, that's sort of how it is for us in our household.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I grew up in a household where my mom was very much about our faith and took us to, you know, to, to church services and was super faithful about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:My dad never went like maybe once a year, I'm sure before he's like a Chriester, Christmas and Easter, but not usually both.
Caesar Kalinowski:right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that's one situation.
Caesar Kalinowski:So someone's listening to this show, they're reading books, they're, you know, all about like living on mission, making disciples, but their spouse is not even involved, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Then you've got the second situation where your spouse is a Christian, but they're not into missional living.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're just not.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're like, I don't know, go to church on Sunday, I'm busy, you know, I'm providing for the family or like, you know, I got my job or whatever, you know, so, and they're not going to do it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So those I think are the two possible issues there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're very, very different.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, to kind of, to kind of speak to this from, from scripture a little bit, and, and this is not a verse that usually gets applied to this, but I want to.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think it does.
Caesar Kalinowski:First Corinthians 7 verses 12 to 14 says, check this out, says, if any brother has a wife who's not a believer and she's willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this is a very commonly quoted divorce passage.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if a woman has a husband who's not a believer, but he's willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.
Caesar Kalinowski:Verse 14 goes on and says, and this is a part I think speaks to today's topic as well a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife.
Caesar Kalinowski:and The Unbelieving Wife has been sanctified through her believing husband.
Caesar Kalinowski:Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is, they're holy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, what's going on here?
Caesar Kalinowski:And people have debated, like, sanctified mean, wait a minute, if you've got a believing spouse, then, then the husband's, you know, the wife believes the husband's automatically saved?
Caesar Kalinowski:No.
Caesar Kalinowski:The words sanctified and holy come from the same root, and they both mean sort of set apart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Set apart for what?
Caesar Kalinowski:For God's use, for God's glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've talked about over and over on the show that the eternal purpose of God and why we make disciples of Jesus, who make more disciples of Jesus, is that God has always been about filling the world with His glory, what He's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so what Paul is talking about here to the Corinthians, he's saying, listen, even if there's just one of you in the marriage who's in Christ, a believer, The other spouse has been sanctified.
Caesar Kalinowski:They've been set apart as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so have your kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:Meaning I still have plans for you to bring me glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're not sort of off the hook as it were.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so even though this is wrapped into a passage that's often just quoted purely about divorce, I think when we talk about.
Caesar Kalinowski:the household where you've got one spouse who's a believer and one who's not, that household has still been set apart, sanctified for God's glory, and you can count on it that he is just like, you know, like we both enjoy living with spouses that are believers and on mission with us, but that household where it's only one, God still has a plan, it's still set apart for his glory, you get to make disciples, it might just look differently.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm, and we're gonna talk about how that might look right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah, I just want to point that out now There's also the second scenario where your spouse is a Christian But not into the missional living like we've already mentioned and that's where most of our talk today will probably land Okay, though you're gonna see there's some really surprising similarities to both types of situations Believing spouse not believing spouse, but either way they're not into making disciples and living on mission So there's a lot of similarities and how we approach living on mission in both those circumstances
Caesar Kalinowski:You
Heath Hollensbe:know and as I was thinking about this And we were kind of working on the on the topic ahead of time I was thinking about when I was first Kind of introduced to this missional living thing It was actually a conference that you and Jeff and Hugh were speaking at in Alabama, in Huntsville, Alabama And I came back really excited as did a bunch of other of the people that went with us and their spouses came back And they're like, oh you guys are just it's a new it's a new fad.
Heath Hollensbe:It's a new trend this missional thing Yeah, I think it might be a new definition to the church Uh, but I, it doesn't seem like Jesus ever really gives anybody an out from living missionally or from making disciples, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's, there's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just that we, maybe we don't know it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But the, the, the call and the command to, to, as I'm, Jesus is leaving, he says, listen, now go and make disciples and baptize them in their identity, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Baptize him in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son, in the name of the Holy Spirit.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's all family language.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then he gives us the mission, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Go and make disciples all over the whole world, everywhere, every neighborhood, every tongue, every, you know, every tribe, every nation.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so really, and I think some Christians believe there's two kinds of Believers.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's those who are disciples of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they believe in him as Savior and Lord.
Caesar Kalinowski:They've confessed it with their mouth and tongue and they are in.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so they're saying, then there's those who go, I confess it, but I'm not his disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't see that in scripture and I will strongly stand on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't see that there's any kind of two kinds of Christians in scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just don't see it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think there's, there's obedient and there's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think sometimes though, our obedience might be hindered because we've been led.
Caesar Kalinowski:To not understand the full, big gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:That in fact, why we've been saved, the purpose of the gospel is that we would now be caught up in God's eternal purpose of making disciples of Jesus who fill the world with...
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus with His glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:What?
Caesar Kalinowski:He's like, yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:What he's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, no, I don't think anyone gets a pass on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:If they're in Christ, if they're a believer, and I think it's actually good news for a believing spouse who says, but my husband's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think it's good news to know that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, but your husband and your kids are all sanctified.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're all set apart for this mission, for God's glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Either way, so take heart like God's got it.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's in control, which guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a similarity to even if we're like in a marriage where one spouse is just like for whatever reason not engaging mission They're not engaging discipleship.
Caesar Kalinowski:They don't want to live this as a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:God still got it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's still all him He has to do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:The Holy Spirit's the primary disciple of our hearts and of people so there's a lot of overlap now There's different Like actual challenges that come from either of those or not just really depends on the relationship.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why I said earlier It's not a one size fits all
Heath Hollensbe:So when I think of the commands of Jesus and I think of what's been asked of us Things that we get to do because he's asked one of them is, you know Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind strength and loving neighbors yourself And the second one that pops to mind is go and make disciples.
Heath Hollensbe:And so knowing that our call that the mandate that Jesus has given us is to go and make disciples and If we're not doing that, I have to believe that there's just, there's a couple of things that are going on possibly, maybe more, but the two that pop up in my head are either some sort of ignorance because we don't really teach this, go and make disciples much in the
Caesar Kalinowski:church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kind of already played that hand.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, no, get them to church.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's all about getting them out of hell and into heaven and stop there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Or what I think the other thing is, is that there's, there's some sort of deep unbelief in people's hearts that, that doesn't allow them grab ahold of this like missional, incarnational impulse of Jesus.
Heath Hollensbe:So what areas do you think, uh, unbelief pop up in when people have been exposed to the incarnational way of Jesus, but choose not to live that
Caesar Kalinowski:way?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great question.
Caesar Kalinowski:It goes right to the heart of the issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:The thing behind the thing, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think that there could be many, but like first one that came to mind was, um, I'm living with a false belief that my life is in Christ is my own.
Caesar Kalinowski:My time's my own.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's my calendar.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's my schedule.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's my stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is my house.
Caesar Kalinowski:I I'll put an or on it, honey.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause I don't want to exclude you.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is our house.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is our schedule, you know, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think, but that's, that's, that's not even true.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's not.
Caesar Kalinowski:what scripture teaches, it's like in Christ, it's all, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Our life has died now and Christ is our life, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so it's false belief, but often, as long as we appear to be good people and a good Christian and we show up, you know, 2.
Caesar Kalinowski:7 times a month on Sunday mornings.
Caesar Kalinowski:and we give a little, like, we're considered in, we're good, we're gold.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it's not your schedule, it's not your, also, we might not be believing the gospel that has both the power that saves us, right, that the cross, uh, and on the cross Jesus took upon himself our death, right, and exchanged his perfect life.
Caesar Kalinowski:that we might live that life now.
Caesar Kalinowski:We don't believe that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We kind of like the part where we avoid punishment or hell or something, but we don't really believe that there was a life exchange.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we don't also know the purpose of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, why we've been saved.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's an unbelief there that there was a purpose.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't just to wait around.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, wasn't just to kind of hang out in the holy huddles and wait for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we don't we don't know that there also could be We're living with unbelief about who's the most glorious person That deserves all of our our honor and then whose opinion of us is the only one that matters and so if we feel like there's if there's a great love of self and fear of man That's the issue of unbelief we're dealing with, then I don't, I don't want to live this way because what if people don't like it, or what if people say no, or what if it starts to cut into my comfort zone, or what if I'm called to lead in ways that I don't know what I'm doing, or right, so I love me more than I love God's glory, or I love that person's approval.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, anybody, everyone's approval more than I love God and his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there is a whole lot of things to be, we'd have to go down the list of every human emotion, but you know, going back and even thinking through the four G's, which we've talked about quite a few times in the show where God is great.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't have to be in control.
Caesar Kalinowski:God is glorious.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't have to fear others.
Caesar Kalinowski:God is good.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't have to look elsewhere for my satisfaction.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a big one.
Caesar Kalinowski:We might not be believing that God's that good.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm just busy, busy, busy trying to provide this perfect dream life of all the stuff and now and bigger, faster, louder, and more of it and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're not believing God's grace that there's nothing we have to prove or earn.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we get to kind of try and suck forward and lead people just a foot behind us.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're, we're learning and how grace is trans transforming our lives and all.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if we don't believe any of that, even if we're in Christ and we go, I believe he died on the cross, he's Lord and he's savior, but we don't understand and believe all of that, then it's very easy to hide behind that and, or just live in ignorance and fear.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And self love and all
Heath Hollensbe:that stuff.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, and I'm thinking too, like all Christians get to live missionally.
Heath Hollensbe:Get to, keyword.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, you don't have to, right?
Heath Hollensbe:You get to live missionally, you get to make disciples, and that's regardless of whether or not your spouse wants to do it.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, and there's excuses like I can't.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, unless you're
Caesar Kalinowski:locked in like in a cell, like you get to make disciples, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:I think Paul did it even in a cell, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:well, sorry, I'm wrong.
Caesar Kalinowski:But,
Heath Hollensbe:but, you know, I've heard excuses like, well, I can't do that in my workplace, or my circle of friends, that doesn't make it happen very well.
Heath Hollensbe:But, but we get to bring the whole family on mission.
Heath Hollensbe:And when we do that, though, it really does take a lot of agreement between spouses, right?
Heath Hollensbe:This is, it's hard to do when you don't have the approval or the, The Excitement
Caesar Kalinowski:of the other Course.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's heartbreaking.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really is.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think sometimes our first discipleship starts in the home, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Of course.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right now, fortunately Just as a side here, fortunately I've not had anyone contact us who was in a situation where their spouse is trying to forbid this lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I forbid you to have anyone in the room.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've not heard that either, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, holy cow, that sounds like being a prisoner, like kidnapping, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But rather they don't participate, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's heartbreaking.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, I've had someone recently tell me, well my husband, His countenance like because he's just not into it at all and he's a bit of an alcoholic his countenance around the house is a deterrent to their to our house being a place of hope and grace and Family for others, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But just remember discipleship starts in your home and it works its way out through relationship So that's what I suggest right away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is it you?
Caesar Kalinowski:Focus on your own home and your table.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you've got kids, then your kids first, that's how we counsel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody that we coach is like, start there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't try to talk anybody else, maybe including even your spouse just yet into something that you're not living.
Caesar Kalinowski:You get to, so if your wife's not into it, like you said, someone, you know, recently.
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, commenting on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, yeah, I'm all, I'm all in, but my wife's not down board with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start to lead your family, like have a different type of family dinner night or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start to go, you know, you know, what's going on at your table.
Caesar Kalinowski:How are you tucking the kids in?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you praying with them?
Caesar Kalinowski:How are you speaking their identity and God's truth over their lives?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like start there before, like, I'm so bummed, you know, I can't, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you might need to do the outward missions with others and other families in your community where like their household is a place of peace.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, and both spouses are on board.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it might be for a season, you've got to focus on home and do the outward with others where their home can be part of that outward.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and that's where you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:So
Heath Hollensbe:it's a good point, man.
Heath Hollensbe:I hadn't considered
Caesar Kalinowski:that even.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, yeah, we got to start, we got to start at home.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship always starts in the home.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like if, if we're not there yet, but we're super worried about, you know, what we aren't doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um,
Heath Hollensbe:one of the things that we were talking about was providing some steps that we can encourage people in steps to take when they're in a situation where their spouse has really no desire to pursue this lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:And it's a good reminder that this is not.
Heath Hollensbe:It's not a deal breaker,
Caesar Kalinowski:right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's not a deal breaker, it's like my, you know, my wife or my husband's not into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or they're not yet a believer, you know, they're not antagonistic to it, but, you know, it's sort of me and the kids and my friends, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's give them some steps to take moving forward.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so, um, this list is, I'm gonna give you a whole bunch of stuff, and we're gonna move pretty quick.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, like, we'll...
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll kind of talk through it, but there's a lot here.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was really trying to, I mean, my heart breaks in this situation.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, but this list is going to be primarily focused on someone who's got a believing spouse, but they're not interested in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:But like I said earlier, many of the same things and attitude and posture applies if your spouse is not yet a follower of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first thing I'd say is find a trusted person.
Caesar Kalinowski:of the same sex.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you're a guy, find a guy, if your sister listened to this, find another sister, find another lady and pray regularly for your spouse to trust Jesus and, or to believe the truth of the gospel in regards, in regards to discipleship as a lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like really, really, you know, really pray about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:And somebody's like, well, I've kind of, I've prayed about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, are you praying about it like daily?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like is this, if this is really on your heart and God's gripped your heart for discipleship and mission, pray for your spouse to come to faith or pray for them to move out of unbelief in regards to whose life this is.
Caesar Kalinowski:When it comes to discipleship and mission and all that.
Heath Hollensbe:You know the beautiful thing about having somebody else there Like that you're praying with is they're oftentimes able to speak to the situation when you're just when you're like When you're kind of like man discouraged this isn't working out.
Heath Hollensbe:Oftentimes they're like man, look at the progress That's happened the last six months.
Heath Hollensbe:You were here now you're here.
Heath Hollensbe:And so I think yeah find that trusted
Caesar Kalinowski:person.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's great And I know it sounds sometimes too easy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, well, yeah, I know I got to start with prayers.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, no, no, really do it because God changes these things and he's more concerned with his glory than we ever will be.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Second thing, think about this, growing your own gospel fluency so that your words and life is good news to your family and spouse.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:So often we don't have really a whole lot of good news in us like that anybody else needs just yet because our gospel is still so small.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's primarily about getting people to church and then waiting for, you know, Jesus to return or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:But growing in our own gospel fluency, the ability to speak and live and enjoy the good news in all of life, if you're really, if you're growing in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:because what that's leaking all over your spouse as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as your gospel and your kids, as the way you're talking to friends and when others are in the house, and when it's good news, not just good advice, that gospel doesn't return void.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:It just doesn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're right, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next thing, um, I really want to encourage us to live in an understanding way with your spouse.
Caesar Kalinowski:First Peter three, seven says that, you know, like live in an, in an understanding way.
Caesar Kalinowski:So try and discern.
Caesar Kalinowski:What the thing behind the thing, we touched on this just a bit already, but try to discern what the thing behind the thing is that's keeping your spouse from engaging in mission with you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:The gospel speaks to the issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, you see how prayer and gospel fluency flows into this third one, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, because if you can, if you can live in an understanding way, if you can figure out what that, well, what's that barrier, then you can begin to address specifics instead of just generalities.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You can, so like if the person's an introvert, you know, or like just hiding behind it or they, I'm just too busy, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, but if you can figure out what's the thing behind that and you can address it, that's what changes.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not actions that have to change first.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's always the heart and the belief behind it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, um, general vague arguments about this probably never help.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, if you're doing this, stop shoulding all over your spouse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, that's a good way.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we should be doing this.
Caesar Kalinowski:We should, you know, like that's shame and should and supposed to, that's never going to change it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number four.
Caesar Kalinowski:Four.
Caesar Kalinowski:If your spouse.
Caesar Kalinowski:is not into this, but you know, they claim to be a believer.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're, you know, they are, they're Christian.
Caesar Kalinowski:Treat your spouse as an unbeliever in that area, since that's what they are, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And that kind of flows right out of the last one.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you figure that out, then you're going to treat them as an unbeliever.
Caesar Kalinowski:How do you treat an unbeliever?
Caesar Kalinowski:With grace, with patience, with gentleness, with patience, with more patience, kindness, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And what's your next invitation?
Caesar Kalinowski:and challenge.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've talked about that before on the show.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, what's, how are you banking trust and invitation with them?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then some challenge to try new things, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So in some ways, That's exactly what you have to do with an unbelieving spouse, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You've got to treat them with patience and grace and you've got to be banking invitation and little small challenges of trust that they have steps they can take.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, if possible, I would suggest that couples get together Read my book Transformed and this isn't a plug for the book as much as it's gonna really help as you discuss Together the questions are to end of each chapter.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gonna help really unearth identity What's true of us in Christ and how we get to live this out.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not a how to book It's never gonna poke anybody in the chest.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no shoulding in that book Here's what it'll do.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll help get you on the same page, and it'll help your spouse to see, kind of quote unquote, what you're really talking about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because chances are, when you're talking about living on mission, and living with a more open home, and making disciples as a lifestyle, there's probably real lack of clarity there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what's that mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:And what's gonna happen there?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, when there's not clarity, there's fear.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, by reading that book together, it might really, really help.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, one of the things that I love about that book, too, and I've heard from so many people, is that it just paints a picture of what life could be like, and the stories, and it's beautiful, and it's fun,
Caesar Kalinowski:and...
Caesar Kalinowski:And there's some real hard parts in there, too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes it sucks because of this, but here's how the gospel speaks to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, too, for a lot of spouses, um, this idea of living with an open home and living on mission, and helping people, you know, move towards God and the kingdom, they just, they, it just drums up every bad of, you know, evangelism class or experience they've ever had.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, just, you know, side note to reading through Transform Together is...
Caesar Kalinowski:Take this heavy, getting people saved thing outta the picture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, you know, let your spouse know that's not, is, we're not trying to heavy hand anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is about discipleship and help people see and taste the good news of the kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:In every area of life as we're helping you move from un\belief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So for some people, that's the thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they, they wouldn't even know how to articulate it, but they feel like, oh man, I don't wanna be heavy on everybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't wanna be beaten on everybody I know.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, no, that's not it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're trying to live here at our table and in our home a way that just shows off Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:and invites others to learn how to do the same as we walk with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not perfect.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not perfect.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're not getting heavy on anybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're offering the life that Jesus offers us.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful,
Heath Hollensbe:man.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number six.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Big one here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start where you're at and with what you can do.
Caesar Kalinowski:rather than focusing on what you can't do and on limitations.
Caesar Kalinowski:So often that's how it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, well, tell me what your, you know, people are like, I can't, people do the same thing with their church, by the way, they'll, we get this all the time, lots of emails, but listen to the podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:I read your book, uh, you know, and just our church is never going to do this, or my pastor's not into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we've talked about that before.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, wait a minute, are, are you locked in a cage and they're forbidding you a penalty of death?
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, like don't focus on what you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think you can't do it on limitations, but start with things like start doing a family dinner night, like a real special one that it's just full of grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there's, you know, and we have teaching and all this stuff too, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and start going through the story of God with your kids at that table, maybe with some other neighborhood kids, maybe you start a backyard club.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, during the summer and you have like a certain day or two of the week where kids come over and they do some crafts and you take them through the story of God and you cook some stuff together and you eat lunch and it's there, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, no one's stopping you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, like, even if you have an unbelieving spouse and you're like, they're way not into this stuff and it's very hard to do the stuff in my house.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, maybe when they're at work, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe, uh, same type of idea, you can do a weekly brunch for like neighborhood moms or you have a, you know, a weekly breakfast where you get together with a bunch of guys in your neighborhood because it's just not conducive at your house.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe your spouse is like just still flipped out about having a perfect house or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:They want anybody in it or whatever, you know, and you start to set up a predictable pattern.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're like, no, no, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:God's using us right where we're at.
Caesar Kalinowski:uh, changing what's happening at my own table.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're doing things when I can, so it's not flipping out my spouse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I, I would encourage you to find your place like a third place in, you know, in life where you build friendships and sort of become a regular there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like a cafe or a pub or the gym or that certain park that everybody hangs at, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And be good news there, build relationships, be a regular that the staff knows you and they're looking out for you and they want to introduce you to people and maybe you're, you know.
Caesar Kalinowski:Paying for the coffee behind this person behind you or something or buying around.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know start where you're at And there's a lot of things you can do and say well I really want to be doing this whole thing in the evening and have people around and do meals and all like well Maybe that's gonna come and maybe you need to do that with others in community, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so you can do it at their home, some of those things.
Caesar Kalinowski:So those are some great, great tips.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Next thing here, ultimately discipleship happens in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I kind of started to tip my hand to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:If there's a missional community that you can be a part of or other Christian couples that also want to live on mission like this and make disciples, maybe you can partner with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So your partner's not fully involved, but they're not like locking you in a closet.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, you know, so maybe through your church or maybe just Through, you know, the Facebook group here for the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we've had people finding each other like crazy in lots of cities and going, Oh, people I can do life with.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, so discipleship ultimately is going to happen in community anyway, ultimately to get, to get to maturity.
Caesar Kalinowski:So sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:We want to start where we're at and meeting with people, even if it's one to one or a handful of people, like I said, for a brunch or like a men's coffee or breakfast thing or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:But maybe you can partner with others that are already living that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And And then there again, be good news in the ways you get to.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And let me ask you this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is your spouse okay if you engage with others in community and at your home, even though they're not into it?
Caesar Kalinowski:So bums you out.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, for years, and I won't give their names, but some really close friends of ours in Tacoma, the husband was all about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the wife was like, I don't want to talk about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't want to discuss why not.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, and she had been raised a Christian, was super all about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then one day not.
Caesar Kalinowski:And literally it was like dumbfounding, wouldn't talk about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow, it was like and you know and he had tried everything like her niceness and arguing and you know, like silentry all that You know, so finally he said well, but she doesn't limit what I do here and so we would we did parties there and he would host meals and we were you know doing the story and Everybody and she would be around but as soon as we kind of got to spiritual things she would disappear you know, go up to a room or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But everybody was loving on her and there was good news in the home and there was gentleness and there was generosity.
Caesar Kalinowski:And eventually, yeah, the story of God thing I keep hearing about, I think I want to, I think I want in on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you get to, and that's what flipped it for her.
Caesar Kalinowski:And she finally believed who God was and what God said was true of her.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it changed everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then she's a hundred percent in on everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:She's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:We already knew her and loved her like a sister.
Caesar Kalinowski:And she was a Christian, but she didn't want in.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so I guess the way I'd end this whole list of things with that story is I'd say be patient.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because even that seemed, like literally he was pulling his hair out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I know that,
Heath Hollensbe:I know that story.
Heath Hollensbe:And
Caesar Kalinowski:she was great, but didn't want anything to do with it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Zero.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we just, but because she wasn't forbidding it in the home kind of thing, he's like, well, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not gonna force her, but we're just gonna love, this is gonna be a house of love.
Caesar Kalinowski:The kids were kind of involved.
Caesar Kalinowski:And eventually, so be patient, trust God for this.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's the ultimate disciple of our hearts and has to change us and, and, and Paul, you know, Paul's beautiful prayer for people was, I pray that our father, God will grant them repentance unto salvation.
Caesar Kalinowski:So You know, what's that mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Repentance?
Caesar Kalinowski:It doesn't mean feel bad about stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:It means new way of thinking and living in light of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So God grants that apparently.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's be in prayer for our believing and not yet believing spouses that God would grant them repentance, new mind, new understanding, new hope unto salvation, meaning freedom.
Caesar Kalinowski:in this, in all of life really, but in these ways as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:So yeah, there you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's plenty.
Heath Hollensbe:It's plenty, but we got even more.
Heath Hollensbe:Let's get to the big three for this week, uh, which is the, the printable PDF for free you get by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:They're available as a download.
Heath Hollensbe:And these are the three takeaways, if nothing else, we want you to walk away with from today's episode.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what are the big three for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Big three, um, is don't miss this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Be diligent in prayer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talk to God about your spouse more than you talk to your spouse about this issue.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah for right now It's like if you've tried it and maybe you're not as fluent in the gospel yet Or it's it's a little should-y or a little should, you know Yeah Ask God how you can best live in an understanding way with your spouse and for the Spirit of God To show you the thing behind the thing that's keeping them from engaging in the mission together with you and as a family Okay, address those things In time, in person, but with the gospel, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:No shoulding your spouse over this.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not allowed.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number two.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, two.
Caesar Kalinowski:God loves you and knows your heart and the challenges you're facing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like I've said, my heart breaks for folks that are like, my spouse isn't into it.
Caesar Kalinowski:They're not doing it.
Caesar Kalinowski:But God loves you more than I ever will.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he knows your heart and what you're facing.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we can never earn.
Caesar Kalinowski:another drop more of God's love and affection by our actions or our inactions.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that goes for our spouse too.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we may be missing out on loads of blessings that he has for us as we live as good news for others.
Caesar Kalinowski:So our good and great father will guide you and show you his love through the relationships you have and that you're building for his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:He really will.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number three, um, start where you're at.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll say it again, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Start where you're at and with what you can do rather than focusing on what you can't do.
Caesar Kalinowski:Start having a great and special weekly family dinner night together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe you can introduce the story of God for kids into this new rhythm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can get that on my caesarkalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:com site.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, your kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:And your spouse will be changed by the story and so will you.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if possible, and your spouse is up for it, read the book Transformed Together.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gonna, it's gonna, and really it's all narratives and stories.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gonna really give you an easy and non threatening way to discuss a lot of what's on your heart and paint that picture.
Caesar Kalinowski:And answer those questions at the end.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gonna help your spouse to really see what you're talking about and what you're trying to move towards and take a lot of the fear out of it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and I think it's gonna help you grow closer together and to God.
Caesar Kalinowski:As you, as you dive into these things together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay,
Heath Hollensbe:man.
Heath Hollensbe:Alright, thanks for the big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, if you want those, there's a downloadable link for free.
Heath Hollensbe:You get them by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three, and we'll put them right into your inbox.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, if you haven't yet joined the Facebook group, everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash Facebook.
Heath Hollensbe:Just while we were recording this episode, I admitted Four more people into the group.
Heath Hollensbe:Well,
Caesar Kalinowski:there you go.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, boom, we're growing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know what else, too?
Caesar Kalinowski:If you've not subscribed to the show so that you don't miss it, so either in iTunes or in Spotify or Stitcher or wherever you listen to podcasts, would you please do the subscription thing and then leave us a review, especially if you'll jump over to iTunes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Almost everybody has an iTunes account for one reason or another, and you just go to Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:search that up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Give us a bunch of stars and just a few words of endorsement really, really help.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, it just encourages the heck out of Heath and I.
Caesar Kalinowski:We love reading them.
Caesar Kalinowski:So please, and we, and we like to, we try to read them all online on the show if we can.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so please do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know it takes time and if you're driving and everything, you got to, you know, listen and do it later.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But try, we love to, so join the group.
Caesar Kalinowski:Give us a review and subscribe and, uh, and we'll keep trying to give you the, you know, the best we can every week.
Caesar Kalinowski:The best Monday morning
Heath Hollensbe:podcast we can give you.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, next week we're going to talk about letting your redemption show.
Heath Hollensbe:It's a different sort of angle than we've taken on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hiding your imperfection, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but the value of why we want to let our redemption show.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so join us next week for that one.
Caesar Kalinowski:I am really looking forward to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hope you'll be here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show, and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.