Is Discipleship Different for Women?
Men’s and women’s ministries have been separated in the church for years. But the church is a family. And when we disciple together, as a family in community, we experience deeper discipleship in every area of life.
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, Caesar is joined by his wife Tina, and their friend and fellow disciple-maker, Barb Terry. He gets their perspective on women and discipleship. Are there differences? We find out that the answer is both “yes” and “no”.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- Why the church has traditionally separated men and women.
- The importance of women finding their “sisterhood” within community.
- Can women be effectively discipled by men?
- Why understanding our gospel identity leads to freedom for both women and men.
From this episode:
“We are all completely uniquely created, designed by God. We’re here for a purpose. We’re not just here to get by or survive or get stuff done, we get to live our lives in a way that glorifies God, and it shows people what he is like. Living in that reality, in the truth of our gospel identity, changes what we have to do into what we get to do. Yeah. We’re totally free to be whatever God created us to be.”
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Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Free Download of the Big 3 For Episode #325
Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.
Free Discipleship and Missional Resources
Transcript
Why do you think it is kind of traditionally has been this way where there's the men's ministry and there's the women's ministry.
Speaker:And then we have youth ministry and everybody's kind of bifurcated and segregated.
Speaker:And even within our small groups, you know, in some Missional communities, if we're being honest, sometimes we kind of we'll get together.
Speaker:We have a little opening thing.
Speaker:Maybe we ate, maybe we, and then we kind of split the different rooms.
Speaker:If it's not a perceived need, then why aren't we doing it?
Speaker:So segregated.
Speaker:I think it has a lot to do with the fact that that's just the way we've seen it modeled and how it's always been done.
Speaker:Sometimes it works.
Speaker:Sometimes it doesn't, there's obviously a spot where women just need to go deeper with other women and get to the root of things.
Speaker:The thing behind the thing.
Speaker:But what we found is when things are done more in Community, more just in the day-to-day everyday life, that's when things kind of get down to the root of it, you know?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it, and at our base, the church is a family.
Speaker:And so when we operate as a family and we Disciple as a family, then we get to Disciple in all areas of life, which is really what discipleship is about.
Speaker:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with.
Speaker:Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Speaker:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle, this is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Speaker:And now here's your host Caesar.
Speaker:Kalinowski okey-doke.
Speaker:Here we go again.
Speaker:Uh huh.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So good to be back with you and excited for this episode.
Speaker:I'll tell you about it a little bit here when maybe you're going to be excited too, but how was your weekend or how was your last week?
Speaker:Since we were last together, we had an amazing weekend here in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker:Just gorgeous weather-wise but you know what really made it special?
Speaker:You know, what's really special about it.
Speaker:A good friend of ours, Barb Terry came to visit.
Speaker:Yeah, Barb is married to Nick and together they help lead a church called C3 in Maryville, uh, about, uh, I guess about an hour or an hour and a half North of Kansas city.
Speaker:But, uh, we've been coaching them for a couple of years and become very close to them.
Speaker:And she came on out for a little long extended weekend visit to hang out with Tina and with another gal in our Community.
Speaker:Uh, Kayla, and it was just.
Speaker:It was a lot of fun and it was kind of the three of them and me.
Speaker:So it was like three sisters and a brother kind of a weekend.
Speaker:And, uh, they did a lot of hanging on their own and they had some ministry stuff they were talking about and dreaming about and praying about.
Speaker:Um, but we get to do a lot of hanging out together and that was really, really fun just being the church.
Speaker:And though we did see other people, but mostly we got to hang out and have lots of cool meals.
Speaker:And anyway, that was a really fun time.
Speaker:And it was one of those kind of reminders of, uh, how we're family, even if we haven't seen each other face to face, because even though I've known Barb for a couple of years through coaching and we see each other on zoom and all that, and we've gone through a lot of ups and downs in life and ministry during those couple of years, this was the first time that Tina and I had ever met her.
Speaker:So what, but what a cool thing.
Speaker:Cause it wasn't like it was any big deal.
Speaker:We were just like, and family, and she's very fluent in the Gospel and awesome and all that.
Speaker:So as you're actually going to get to experience in just a few minutes, I'll come back to that before I do though, would you join us over on Facebook in our Facebook group?
Speaker:Uh, we have a lot of fun over there and you get to post questions and comments and thoughts about the episodes or just discipleship and Missional living in general or gospel fluency or any of that.
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Speaker:Search us out on Facebook for the Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Speaker:Or you can just go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash.
Speaker:Facebook and it'll take you right there and then you can join the group and join the party.
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Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, here we go.
Speaker:We're going to dive into this episode.
Speaker:Talking about is discipleship different for women?
Speaker:Than men and right away, I know just from the title, some of you guys, uh, are going to want to just check out you're going to go, Oh, it's a, it's going to be a women episode.
Speaker:No, it's really not.
Speaker:It's really a discipleship episode and how discipleship in community happens.
Speaker:But I did want to, while I had Barb in town with.
Speaker:Tina, I w you know, cause Tina lives here all the time, but Barb doesn't, I wanted to talk to them about their experiences because Tina and I have been in lots and lots of communities and help plants, lots of churches and making lots of disciples, but so has Barb.
Speaker:So I wanted to know their perspective on women in discipleship.
Speaker:And is there differences and if so, why and how people get started and fixing some of those things in any of that.
Speaker:I think you're going to really love this conversation, whether you're a guy or a gal, brother, or sister, and it's going to help put a bigger framework on what discipleship is and how we look to meet the unique needs of everyone in our community, brothers, and sisters, and how we can do that.
Speaker:And maybe how us brothers can help pave the way for our sisters to be able to be discipled in rich ways.
Speaker:All right, you're going to love this.
Speaker:Give it a listen.
Speaker:Well, this is quite a unique, awesome thing to have you both here on the podcast with me.
Speaker:I've had Tina many times, obviously, uh, we're partners in ministry in life and this household and leading team.
Speaker:K, but Barb being here, this is what a bonus.
Speaker:I know I'm super excited, but we had some fun this weekend.
Speaker:Oh, we did.
Speaker:Like, I got to go all around gig Harbor.
Speaker:What a wonderful community you guys have just met some of your friends and your family.
Speaker:It was amazing.
Speaker:It was truly amazing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I wish that more of team K would have been around, they were off doing their own various fun things this weekend.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We still heard some great team K stories though, and ate some great salami eggs.
Speaker:So I've got to experience some stuff and I can't wait to meet them next time.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And them, you I'm certain, well, we want to talk about the differences between how women need to be discipled and, or yeah.
Speaker:Are discipled.
Speaker:So this is the kind of the, this is the slippery slope of it because I, I know right in the front end, I want to be a little bit careful, too.
Speaker:Not just make this a thing about how women are so different than men and because we are all unique.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I want to say also at the front end guys, I'll just remind you here.
Speaker:This is largely my sister's here doing this for us.
Speaker:So don't check out.
Speaker:This is so we can learn about the similarities and yet differences, and uniqueness's about people including women.
Speaker:So let me ask you this, just to start us off.
Speaker:Do you think that women perceive discipleship?
Speaker:In different ways than men do.
Speaker:In other words, and I want to pull a qualifier on this.
Speaker:Like what discipleship actually is and do women have different needs to help them move from unbelief to belief?
Speaker:That's how we describe discipleship or they know those needs, or is it like just been sort of a resignation that like, well, we'll take what we get from like what we've always experienced in church, which as we know is primarily male based and not a lot of discipleship.
Speaker:So what do you think do women perceive discipleship in different ways or even know if they have different needs?
Speaker:No, I don't think they perceive their need any different than men.
Speaker:I think they perceive the responsibility for that differently.
Speaker:What do you mean by that?
Speaker:The responsibility for that?
Speaker:Whose responsibility?
Speaker:Yeah, I think that they've.
Speaker:Been trained and taught by the church that the responsibility for discipleship is the pastors and it's the male leaders and that they just get to go along with what their husbands and the male leaders, if there's not a perceived difference by women.
Speaker:Why do you think it is kind of traditionally has been this way where there's the men's ministry and there's the women's ministry.
Speaker:And then we have youth ministry and everybody's kind of bifurcated and segregated.
Speaker:And even within our small groups, you know, in some Missional communities, if we're being honest, sometimes we kind of we'll get together.
Speaker:We have a little opening thing.
Speaker:Maybe we ate.
Speaker:Maybe we, and then we'd kind of split the different rooms.
Speaker:Like why, why do you think it's it's that's kind of still are, if it's not a perceived need, then why aren't we doing it?
Speaker:So segregated.
Speaker:I think it has a lot to do with the fact that that's just the way we've seen it modeled and how it's always been done.
Speaker:Sometimes it works.
Speaker:Sometimes it doesn't, there's obviously a spot where women just need to go deeper with other women and get to the root of things.
Speaker:The thing behind the thing.
Speaker:But what we found is when things are done more in Community, more just in the day-to-day everyday life, that's when things kinda.
Speaker:Get down to the root of it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And at our base, the church is a family.
Speaker:And so when we operate as a family and we Disciple as a family, then we get to Disciple in all areas of life, which is really what discipleship's about.
Speaker:And I think there, again, with the distortion that the church has handed us all that discipleship was primarily it's about knowledge and sin management.
Speaker:Um, and so that flows out of a broken Gospel that thinks, you know, that the Gospel was primarily about our afterlife.
Speaker:And so if you've said this prayer now what discipleship quote unquote or sanctification equals is try to sinless till Jesus gets back.
Speaker:Cause we don't piss them off.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so it's behavioral modification.
Speaker:So then that flows right into what you just said.
Speaker:Doesn't it.
Speaker:Right because that's a flawed, broken assumption.
Speaker:But if Discipleship is, you know, like we've said a zillion times here on the podcast, helping all of us move from unbelief to belief in light of the gospel, we're becoming more and more Christ.
Speaker:Like, then we need the whole body don't we, we need, not that there's not a uniqueness.
Speaker:Like I have a deep connection with this person or that person, or because that is another mother or a father, I can really relate to that person in that way.
Speaker:But overall.
Speaker:We need all the body parts.
Speaker:And I hope we can like, just really claim that bell for the church to hear that, that this separation in bifurcation doesn't ultimately service just like in a family.
Speaker:Sometimes I'm just with my son or with one of my daughters or this or that.
Speaker:But overall, the richness, the maturity comes from us.
Speaker:Be in the body together.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Totally.
Speaker:And if we all want to look and, and walk more like Jesus does, I'm going to have to go to my sister or my brother whose maybe their giftedness is different than my giftedness, but I want to learn from them.
Speaker:We want to grow together and then that's only done in Community.
Speaker:So we learn a lot of great things from, from young singles.
Speaker:We love college aged kids.
Speaker:It's so much fun, but also how much.
Speaker:More rich and deep is our communities.
Speaker:When we bring in grandmas and grandpas too, kind of mentor and show them what it looks like to walk with Jesus every day.
Speaker:I can remember, remember when we brought in a female to our men's retreat to be like the big guest speaker, tell the guys what they needed to hear, that they hadn't probably heard from their own wives, girlfriends, moms, or people in church.
Speaker:And we did the same thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the guy laughed about that for a long time.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it was, it wasn't like it was the life-changing moment itself, but we were trying to break some of this same weird paradigm that, you know, the women go off on a retreat.
Speaker:The last thing they wanted to see was a guy show up and vice versa.
Speaker:You were like, why it's your sister?
Speaker:There's a lot to learn here.
Speaker:So please tell us some of the things that we need to hear as men this weekend, because if it's a men's retreat and we want to learn how to serve better parent, better.
Speaker:Be more like Christ.
Speaker:You're going to be primary in our lives.
Speaker:You're half of the body.
Speaker:You're half of the family at least, or, you know, whatever.
Speaker:Um, we need to hear from you.
Speaker:So I thought it was brilliant and loved it.
Speaker:Now, let me ask you this.
Speaker:Do you feel like the women are easier to engage in discipleship or we talk about People of Peace, those people, believers, or not yet believers that are really leaning into our lives.
Speaker:Do you think women are easier and they'll make the time to walk with you in the ways that Jesus or.
Speaker:Uh, I mean, are women like, just like men where they they're too busy, distracted, like that, get the kids, they hide behind a lot of stuff and there's not enough time to do this.
Speaker:Yes, they are.
Speaker:Absolutely just like men in that, like the, you know, the circumstances may be different, whether it's working or I'm home with the kids or whatever, but regardless, I think we all struggle with the time finding the time and making the time for discipleship and like being proactive.
Speaker:I like it.
Speaker:It's just as difficult for men and we're not there again, we're not talking about making the time for that extra Bible study to be jammed into your week.
Speaker:So that might be part of it, but we're talking about making the time to be in community, to be in people's lives, to be out serving.
Speaker:But I will say it is a lot easier for me personally, to be intentional with women.
Speaker:There's a lot less barriers.
Speaker:We have a lot of the same places and spaces, a lot of the same things in common.
Speaker:So, you know, it's easier for me to be more intentional with women to go into more vulnerable places with women.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's hard for me to invite.
Speaker:Another woman to go and have a deep.
Speaker:Gospel discussion over some coffee or glass of wine together
Speaker:right.
Speaker:And so I really have always found that when I'm trying to look for invitation into people's lives, you want to try to find some commonality there, you know, so that's a good place to start.
Speaker:And I think when we talk about some of the deeper discipleship stuff, like things that we would call like triads or DNA, I think those, especially it is kind of important to us.
Speaker:To stay.
Speaker:Cause like you were saying, there is a, a vulnerability, there's a, uh, intimacy though.
Speaker:I don't like necessarily use of that word, but there, but there's, you know, there's some trust things and you need to really be careful, but overall, do you think women are any easier to Disciple than men or they'll make time for it better than men or about the same?
Speaker:You know, it's, it depends on the walk and stage of life too.
Speaker:What I found, I have a three-year-old son, it's a lot of easier to get a play date together with moms who want to do.
Speaker:He wanted you to play date in the park or come over my house for a cup of coffee, you know, as opposed to whatever stage of life you're in.
Speaker:But that is true for men too.
Speaker:Isn't it like when it comes to stages of life?
Speaker:Obviously I can't get together for a play date with most guys.
Speaker:If they're at work.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And we still do have a culture we're primarily more men are leaving the household during the daytime.
Speaker:Not every culture is that way, but I would say at least where we are the three of us in our context, he and I are the same ones, but yeah, I just find that everybody's too busy for everything.
Speaker:And I was just kind of personally trying to see what you think, because our experience.
Speaker:Doing discipleship and community is it's not that different from a time standpoint or a leaning in, you got to, I got, you gotta identify your People of Peace, like who really wants to be in this relationship who wants to start to walk in the ways of Jesus and, you know, inappropriate pace that makes sense to them and uniquely crafted and all that.
Speaker:And yet it's interesting because traditionally around the world, For, I don't know how long I'm going to say the past 50 years or more.
Speaker:At least it's probably longer than that.
Speaker:A lot more women are highly engaged in the church.
Speaker:I've been to 30 something plus countries doing ministry.
Speaker:And you always see like a crazy ton of women doing all this stuff.
Speaker:You know, like they're running most of the administration, Sunday school, afterschool mid-week mops Awana, you know, and then there's just a few men who are officially in charge.
Speaker:Then they're begging the men and the families to get more engaged and lead in their households.
Speaker:But then the wives are having to take, you know, the moms are having to take that lead to.
Speaker:There's this weird dichotomy again, we've got this handed down structure and yet what I love about living out of your Gospel identity and just the idea of discipleship rhythms.
Speaker:It's not about the structure that we were, that we grew up in, this is living as Jesus lived.
Speaker:So I don't have to worry about those molds or labels.
Speaker:I can kind of strip that all away.
Speaker:And that's where really, we feel like freedom is found.
Speaker:And I also think that this comes back to the church as a family and.
Speaker:I think women view their church more like their family and women tend to be care takers and the getter doners in the taking care of the family.
Speaker:And so I think it's, we're just really seeing an extension of that to some extent that we're not going to let our.
Speaker:Kids go without shoes or clothes or meals or whatever.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It might be an extension of how you were raised or cultural aspect of that.
Speaker:There is a reality to that.
Speaker:Now.
Speaker:Some don't want that to be a reality or they wanna sort of act like that's not a reality or that's not true or there's a lesser than, or whatever.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But, but I think you're tapping on something there there's a, there is culturally in a lot of cultures, there's more of the, the moms are taking the primary caretaker role.
Speaker:And so it might be easier for them to see the church and Community as their family.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But I have to be honest, I've also heard people say like, no, my family is my husband and my kids, and I barely even hang out with my sisters and stuff all the more.
Speaker:Cause I'm just, I'm super hyper focused on that little nuclear family.
Speaker:And so they don't see that.
Speaker:You know, we've had these conversationsT, right?
Speaker:With how many people don't see people as guests in your home, see them as family.
Speaker:And they're like, but they're not my family, but they are, according to God, those are fellow image, bearers that he created, you know?
Speaker:And we've had whole episodes about that, that now they really are.
Speaker:They might not be the redeemed children in the family.
Speaker:They might not be close to dad.
Speaker:They might be pissed at him far away or whatever, but they're still, we get to see them as brothers and sisters.
Speaker:And that kinda goes back to because we were, we were men and women, both.
Speaker:Created in God's image.
Speaker:And so we, we reflect him in, in slightly different ways, but we are like in lots of different ways.
Speaker:That's the beauty of the whole thing, right?
Speaker:That's the beauty of the whole thing.
Speaker:And why, why marriage?
Speaker:And then family is our primary, like magnifying glass of who God is and what he's like, because when we see this submitted, committed relationship, God exists in Community for God's glory.
Speaker:And when we do that versus our own glory or our kids exist for our glory, That's why that's such a primary big deal and why it's so attacked by the enemy.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And even by the world now, as you Disciple people, women included, but not exclusively.
Speaker:How important is addressing identity with women?
Speaker:In connection to their lives and unbelief or pain or growth maturity.
Speaker:How important is identity?
Speaker:You mentioned it earlier Barb.
Speaker:Oh, it's huge.
Speaker:It's absolutely huge.
Speaker:I really feel like, unless we, we look at our identity, it's very difficult for us to live out of that.
Speaker:If we don't understand it, we really have to know who God is so that we can, we can live as Jesus lived.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So God is and who God.
Speaker:And then says who we are.
Speaker:What's true of us.
Speaker:It's because it's true of him.
Speaker:And now by his spirit and Jesus, life and death, it's up becoming increasingly true of us, right?
Speaker:Yeah, it is true already.
Speaker:We do we believe it and live into it?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And if, if we're not believing who we are, how are we going to respond?
Speaker:We're going to respond by whatever unbelief.
Speaker:Is really controlling our life in the moment.
Speaker:And a lot of that is fear for women inadequacy or the label of, well, I can't do that because it's more important that I prioritize this part of my life.
Speaker:Instead of seeing that it's all the Lords and we get to live in those places and spaces showing and revealing his glory all around us.
Speaker:I think we kind of, as women can compartmentalize life in those ways.
Speaker:So it's really important that our identities and this starts to lean into whole, the whole do to be distortion.
Speaker:Doesn't it?
Speaker:Oh, yeah, we do what we do equals who we are and what we value we're valued by.
Speaker:Or we don't do certain things because that saves us or protects us from certain people thinking certain things.
Speaker:That's all identity issue.
Speaker:And I know Tina can probably agree.
Speaker:I talked to so many women that are just broken and hurting with anxiety and worry or shame.
Speaker:And it's all based on that do to be distortion.
Speaker:You know, I need to do more of this.
Speaker:I need to fix that.
Speaker:I need to do more, do more, or I didn't do enough.
Speaker:And in not doing enough, the guilt and the shame that comes with that.
Speaker:So that perspective of inadequacy not living out of your Gospel identity, realizing that you are saved, you are beautiful.
Speaker:You are valued that God has paid the price that they can't help others see that there's no spiritual freedom yet.
Speaker:And so if there's no spiritual freedom, they can't have have peace in the relationships and things going on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it just understanding of that.
Speaker:We are all.
Speaker:Completely uniquely made, created, designed by God.
Speaker:And that we're here for a purpose.
Speaker:It's not, we're not just here to get by or survive or get stuff done, but that we get to, we get to live our life in a reflection and in a way that glorifies God, it shows people what he is like.
Speaker:And that living in that reality, in that truth of our identity, then changes what we have to do.
Speaker:Or really what we get to do.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's totally freeing.
Speaker:We're free to be, whatever God created us to be.
Speaker:What do you think some of the biggest do to be connected to identity lies are that, and I know this is broad, but that women today might be tempted based on the systems, the way they were up, bringing media, all that.
Speaker:What do you think some of the biggest lies about their identity and who they are based on what they do or don't do are what are some common things that they're going to be big and discipleship and probably show up over and over and over.
Speaker:the lie of that.
Speaker:There's a way to be a perfect mom, that you have to be a perfect mom or else your kids are going to disintegrate or turn out horribly and it's all your fault.
Speaker:You know, it's like the way they turn out as a direct connection to who you are and your glory.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So that's why that's weird.
Speaker:And that'll crush you.
Speaker:Yeah, I think I've come across the most and wrestled with the most myself probably is the do to be distortion of the comparison game.
Speaker:Comparing myself to other people that if I just do this, then I will be as good as this person is.
Speaker:I in society, look at magazine covers riddled with photo-shopped women.
Speaker:You know that this is the perfect mom in the kitchen with the apron and the kids all kept when the reality is.
Speaker:That's fake.
Speaker:That's not real.
Speaker:What's the wrong with an apron.
Speaker:You don't like an apron.
Speaker:What if it's all, what if she's only wearing an apron?
Speaker:Is that good or bad?
Speaker:Is that a good or a bad thing?
Speaker:I guess it would depend on what the husband is looking for then.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I, so the other one that I, that I think that most women really struggle with is this whole concept of like back in the seventies, it was.
Speaker:I can bring home the bacon fried up in a pan and never ever let you forget.
Speaker:You're a man, I'm a woman and I can do all these things in so that the woman has to be like, she has to be the perfect mom and have hold down a job that makes all this money and then come home and have the perfect house and be the perfect wife and, and somehow, or another, that all of that is not only the way that it should be.
Speaker:But that's the should be effortless and you should feel great about it.
Speaker:And everybody else should also bow down to it.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Like, who are you doing that?
Speaker:Like everything I'm doing now, you're poking my idol.
Speaker:Well, and by the way, you know, a lot of that comes out of a very, very, uh, wrong headed, understanding, reading and teaching of Proverbs 31.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Who a woman is in all of this ideal.
Speaker:And it's like, Whoa, that's not even what that's about.
Speaker:And that was, uh, so there, like, even though that seems cultural at the church, hasn't helped in that one way a lot sometimes I think maybe.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, I think that's what Tina and I really want to just tell other women, you know, that God's gracious.
Speaker:You don't have to prove yourself.
Speaker:You don't, you don't have to be anything.
Speaker:You are free to just live out of your identity.
Speaker:You don't have to fear, man.
Speaker:His glory covers all of that.
Speaker:And by that you don't necessarily mean just like males.
Speaker:No, like fear, humanity, fear of man.
Speaker:Fear of the man.
Speaker:I just gotta be careful today.
Speaker:We're so politically correct.
Speaker:And wrapped around the spokes here.
Speaker:You know, fear of what people think.
Speaker:Fear that you're not enough.
Speaker:Fear that you're not adequate at your job, that you're not adequate in your marriage.
Speaker:You're not adequate with your kids or in your, that your home's not kept well enough.
Speaker:All of these things tall enough, short enough, thin enough, skinny enough, smart enough, fast enough, athletic enough, not smart enough.
Speaker:And I think when we are alone, when we truly are just alone in our thoughts in the shower, I think a lot of women just cry out to God that they just cannot do it.
Speaker:They know that they're inadequate.
Speaker:And the truth of the matter is if women would just embrace the spirit within them, because the same spirit lives in me that lives in Jesus.
Speaker:So embrace the power of the spirit and be freed to just.
Speaker:Be what, what he created us to be, which is to show his good works, to reveal his glory all around us.
Speaker:It doesn't have to be complicated.
Speaker:That's just what I want to tell women.
Speaker:They think, Oh, this life I can't do this.
Speaker:It's too much.
Speaker:I'm not in my place and space or whatever.
Speaker:It's like, why don't you back up?
Speaker:Like, do you go to the soccer field on Saturdays?
Speaker:Be Jesus, they're bring the best snacks, be kind to them.
Speaker:So as I'm hearing this, as I'm hearing this, all that stuff is such a huge part of it.
Speaker:Discipleship, because we're moving from unbelief to belief in every area connected to the Gospel, which is going to always inform like, well, so what's true of God.
Speaker:And what has he done to prove that to us?
Speaker:And how does that speak into your identity, your authority, your privilege.
Speaker:And I don't think I'll be honest with you as I'm hearing this.
Speaker:I could, I could replace every one of those with the guy's version of this just sounds like discipleship to me though.
Speaker:There's differences because we're all unique.
Speaker:Just like there might be a different set of those based on how you were raised or the type of parents or your dad or military background, or I had a whole lot of siblings, or I didn't have any siblings.
Speaker:It's going to all be unique distortions of that.
Speaker:Not believing what God says is true of us and getting to learn how to live into.
Speaker:Him becoming him.
Speaker:That's what discipleship is all about.
Speaker:That's what, why we need a Community.
Speaker:You'll just never do that with the one-on-one two Oh one class three Oh one class.
Speaker:And I get all your head knowledge together.
Speaker:So you're, you're clean, right?
Speaker:You're all's fixed, right.
Speaker:If only.
Speaker:What are some of the most meaningful, consistent discipleship relationships or rhythms or activities that you've had throughout your lives.
Speaker:And I know those things come and they go, and sometimes they change as we mature or age and stage of life.
Speaker:But what are some of the things that you would point to that it's like, that's been really meaningful, like a pattern or a rhythm or a relational dynamic.
Speaker:That's been helpful.
Speaker:My own discipleship.
Speaker:You're right.
Speaker:It really does change in kind of your season of life.
Speaker:I have grandkids now.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So I'm in a whole different phase of life than Barb is with her kids.
Speaker:But I can remember when my kids were little and like playgroups and the women that I met with during my playgroups that I met regularly with, and these were women that I prayed with and we studied.
Speaker:The Bible together and, and we were moms together and learning how to be moms together.
Speaker:And those women were that those were relationships that were really important, but over time, that kind of morphs.
Speaker:And then, um, now I'm working mom and now, you know, I'm doing that with my coworkers or other people in community that I have to be really intentional about meeting with.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Well, I would, I totally agree.
Speaker:It does change.
Speaker:But I think the essence, the foundation of it is always the same.
Speaker:It's finding People of Peace, people who lean into what I'm doing, people who care, who trust me, and I trust them in whatever context or place or space, hopefully enough love for you to speak truth to you.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:In perfectly sure.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:call those DNA groups.
Speaker:But what Tina just described to me is it was a DNA group, you know, women coming together.
Speaker:But I think too, probably . It is so important to have some sort of Community, a family.
Speaker:And for us, it's not necessarily our DNA family, you know, Nick and I have always lived away from our folks, our bio family.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Nick and I have always lived away from our parents.
Speaker:And so we've only had that, that group of.
Speaker:Believers to lean into us to help us out when we need a babysitter in a pinch or whatever, we walk together, we eat together, you know, living those discipleship rhythms.
Speaker:That's what you're doing, birthdays together.
Speaker:You're going to kids' games and their recitals and funerals and all this stuff and hospital visits and all that life onlife stuff.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, but that's the beauty of the Gospel.
Speaker:Isn't it.
Speaker:We don't have to be bio family to be family.
Speaker:We get to be together.
Speaker:So that includes everyone.
Speaker:So even the orphans or the outcasts, God has provided that family for you in the spirit.
Speaker:And I love that.
Speaker:So I, I would say that's probably the most pivotal relationship.
Speaker:What do you say to, I know there's people listening and going.
Speaker:Like, I don't have one single woman like that in my life.
Speaker:Like right now, You know, and guys, two guys listening, going like that sounds great.
Speaker:I want a family like that.
Speaker:We have been for years trying to get Missional Community started our church ain't into it or no one, we know it will even listen to the podcast with us or whatever.
Speaker:How do we bear with, and also encourage those who go.
Speaker:I want that.
Speaker:I don't even have the beginnings of that.
Speaker:Well, the first thing I would say is pray.
Speaker:Obviously you have to pray.
Speaker:What's next is something we teach our tribe.
Speaker:Our tribe is our bio family.
Speaker:We teach our tribe, our kids to pray constantly like pray for what's next.
Speaker:We do it every morning and what's next.
Speaker:What's the next step in finding that Community spirit goes before we, we have to trust doesn't God want us to have a family.
Speaker:God wants us to have these relationships.
Speaker:He's not going to hold that back from us.
Speaker:He's going to provide people.
Speaker:And so I would say, as you pray, you need to be brave.
Speaker:Be courageous.
Speaker:The spirit lives inside.
Speaker:You ask questions to people who are leaning in, who you're having good times with and just laughing.
Speaker:It doesn't have to be a Bible study.
Speaker:You could just be someone it's, it's someone that's positive.
Speaker:That's encouraging you.
Speaker:That's leaning into what you're doing, family, right?
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Hard to just go.
Speaker:Like I'm going to go pick three super gospel fluency people and get them in my life all consistently.
Speaker:And then all their schedules are going to completely line up with my gaps and openings.
Speaker:That's not going to start that way.
Speaker:You gotta be kidding.
Speaker:If I had started that way, I would never would have started.
Speaker:I didn't have people like that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I had to be brave and cultivate that together, but that's the beauty of it too.
Speaker:Like we get to do it together.
Speaker:I'm I haven't arrived.
Speaker:I'm learning as they're learning.
Speaker:And so we're all on a journey.
Speaker:Just trying to look more like Jesus.
Speaker:So if you're brave and you step out of that comfort zone and say, Hey, I've been really convicted that I want to cultivate a relationship with someone that I can.
Speaker:That I can talk about some of these deeper things that I'm dealing with, but have them give me some perspective of how the gospel speaks into that.
Speaker:You know, how the good news speaks into that?
Speaker:Can we learn that together?
Speaker:I want to get, I want to try it.
Speaker:Here would be another encouragement I'd want to throw out and how people listening, who maybe don't know where they would start with that is, is I want to just challenge the brothers listening guys.
Speaker:Could you help foster that?
Speaker:Could you help provide the space in time for that?
Speaker:Because a lot of it's that, and that kind of leads into my final question here.
Speaker:As we start to wrap up, how could church leaders be it?
Speaker:Male and female, how can church leaders or Missional Community or small group leaders begin to do a better job of caring for the hearts and the discipleship needs of the sisters in their communities, in their churches.
Speaker:A big thing is intentionality and affirming women.
Speaker:Just affirming their giftedness, affirming the things that you're seeing God doing their life and trying to make those connections because leaders in the church, they know multiple people.
Speaker:So maybe thinking about it intentionally like, Hey, this there's this mom that just started coming in this single mom, but then she was asking about it and I know, you know, so-and-so is really into crafting just like she is.
Speaker:So I'm going to make that connection kind of like a meet, cue to get them together.
Speaker:So, so that they can maybe develop deeper relationship.
Speaker:I really think that that plays a pivotal part, women today do a lot in the church and sometimes don't get a lot of validation for that.
Speaker:So just a simple note, a kind word, things like that.
Speaker:Those go a long way.
Speaker:Not only for women, but for men too.
Speaker:Well, for sure.
Speaker:No, one's over encouraged you know what I mean.
Speaker:I think having a, if the men in the church could also have a better.
Speaker:View of what family really is, meaning like, you know, we are a family with God is our father and Jesus is our brother.
Speaker:And that we have the spirit to guide us and comfort us and help us along the way.
Speaker:God has put women in the family for a reason, and to allow them and to encourage and, and affirm, like you said, their place in this family is an important part of how the family functions.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:That to protect that, to not make that as like an, also an but as a primary, you know, we say, we say Community like that, you know, oikos, uh, Gospel centered Community is the primary organizing structure of the church.
Speaker:Sorry, it's not ours.
Speaker:Hour and a half on Sunday sitting in rows now all separated, like crazy with some people watching a live stream in the background while they're also watching a game or something or, or doing the dishes.
Speaker:So to really believe that if you're a male leader or a female leader to believe that that, that family unit, that growing oikos, that environment is going to be the primary soil that discipleship male and female is going to take, take place in.
Speaker:And if we're family, we all pitch in, we all pitch in and help out.
Speaker:And so sometimes it might be if, if your wife needs to meet with some other women, you may have to watch the kids that night, or, you know, providing this kind of different things.
Speaker:And it's totally unique depending on what your circumstances, but I firmly believe that.
Speaker:Spirit will lead it.
Speaker:If we're intentional and we're seeking him with what's next, God's going to provide us the answers we need.
Speaker:He's going to provide us with People of Peace to build a relationship with.
Speaker:We just have to seek him first and we have to be courageous and step out when he answers.
Speaker:I completely agree with.
Speaker:Sometimes we've just grown so weary and lose hope that that can be a reality.
Speaker:And if nothing else today, maybe we're getting a few little wake-up calls and the encouragement to begin again to, again, it'd be to begin again, try again and suck forward.
Speaker:As we say, it's not, it doesn't start out with this mature, perfect existence.
Speaker:and set of relationships, everybody, they hear these stories or the read, you know, a book I wrote over and they're like, man, I want all that.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Get started.
Speaker:Cause that takes years, right?
Speaker:Okay, well, This is really a lot of perspective that I certainly would not accidental.
Speaker:We stumble upon in my own thoughts or devotions as you share this.
Speaker:And I love how you touched on identity and all those things.
Speaker:And there's a lot for, for me as your brother to digest here.
Speaker:And how am I.
Speaker:Adding to a problem or some traditional boxing up of men and women and kids and siloing people separately and beyond that, not just being okay with stuff, but am I willing to let go like, and bear the burden of you need more time to be able to even cultivate those types of relationships with women and with brothers in the community and with other kids and family, and be an older sister, but also be a younger sister.
Speaker:So I got a lot to chew on and we got to get to the big three.
Speaker:These are our big three takeaways from today's talk, our topic.
Speaker:If nothing else, you don't want to miss these.
Speaker:And as always, I'm happy to send you a printable PDF of this.
Speaker:Week's big three as a free download.
Speaker:All you have to do is go to Everyday Disciple dot com forward slash big three, boom, put in your name and email address.
Speaker:We'll send it to you.
Speaker:So you'll have this kind of summarize, could be good talking points.
Speaker:As you maybe share this episode, or as you just think through it yourself, or share this with another person in Community or spouse or whatever, let's bring it down.
Speaker:What's the big three for today.
Speaker:To start off with, we have to quit trying to live by labels and we need to just be who God has called us to be.
Speaker:So we need to, like we were saying, if you want to know People of Peace, you have to be a person of peace and you need to look at how God created you and where he puts you and bloom, where you're planted with, who you have around you.
Speaker:I've heard.
Speaker:It said that uniqueness is not a barrier.
Speaker:It's actually a unifier.
Speaker:Mm, powerful.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Shout out to my sister, Kayla, who said that to me this morning, actually.
Speaker:So powerful.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Number two of the big three, what do you think it is today?
Speaker:If there's one thing I really want women to take from this, and I want you to listen close it's that God's glorious.
Speaker:So you don't have to fear.
Speaker:You get to live free and your identity as his daughter, you are proven you are valued.
Speaker:You are beautiful where you are for who you are in your circumstance now.
Speaker:And you're empowered by the Holy spirit to do good works and to reveal his glory.
Speaker:It's not complicated.
Speaker:It's beautiful in its simplicity, and God goes before.
Speaker:So remember your gospel identity and live out of that.
Speaker:Remember that you are his daughter first.
Speaker:So all the labels that the world's put on you and all the fear that comes from that just.
Speaker:Rest knowing you're free from that.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Holy cow.
Speaker:Can guys also hear that maybe and feel the same truth.
Speaker:Can I, can I, can we whiff on that one a little too?
Speaker:Like it smells so good to me.
Speaker:It is write it on, on my bathroom mirror.
Speaker:I write notes to my kids and they are straight up Gospel identity all the way.
Speaker:Beautiful.
Speaker:Loved.
Speaker:It's so powerful for our kids and for ourselves.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:That's a lot.
Speaker:They're so good.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Number three.
Speaker:So what's the number three of the, the, the big three here today.
Speaker:And this is usually the one where it's kind of like the rubber hits the road and some, maybe beginning ways to get started.
Speaker:I would say kind of touching on what we touched on before.
Speaker:We need to really pray that God will put People of Peace in our life.
Speaker:People who are leaning in, and if we have them, we need to be courageous to step out and really ask the Lord what's next.
Speaker:In those relationships, cultivating a sisterhood, cultivating a community is pivotal.
Speaker:It is foundational to live and Disciple others.
Speaker:It's hard to Disciple to go to deeper levels of belief when you're not.
Speaker:With people.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:People to call that out in you.
Speaker:So we need a community around us to remind us of the truth when we're not believing it.
Speaker:So I would say, I would say it's be a person of peace.
Speaker:So as you're saying, what's next Lord, I need, I, you know, and praying for people around you, then you need to be brave enough to step out.
Speaker:Like you're saying, and be a person, a Peace and be brave and go to that person and say, Hey, I.
Speaker:You know, I'd really like to get together and talk, have a cup of coffee.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and I think don't over project it.
Speaker:And so, so we can start meeting together for the rest of our life on Wednesdays, like see where it go.
Speaker:What's next.
Speaker:What's the next step.
Speaker:Start there simply.
Speaker:And I know there's a bit of a dichotomy that people might be hearing today.
Speaker:Like, Hey, we don't want to.
Speaker:Just separate everything, men from women and all, but a big aspect like you guys are saying that's been meaningful for you is having that smaller little sisterhood that you, then you can begin to trust that you can begin to peel back the false identity and the false labels and all that.
Speaker:And oftentimes that's one of the most important parts of have actually a rich diverse community is the health of all the individuals as they grow.
Speaker:And that's, that's one component of it, but it's, I want to underscore that for, for my sisters and for brothers.
Speaker:Being sisters with sisters, guys finding a few guys to kind of iron sharpens iron.
Speaker:Remember Robert told us this weekend, it's not plastic sharpens plastic.
Speaker:Like, look for people you go.
Speaker:Those are, those are great people.
Speaker:I'd like to, I think I can learn from that person or they're they seem mature in this area.
Speaker:I feel really like scared in that area or are lacking in that area.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Probably an identity issue.
Speaker:Get along someone who's maybe shed that unbelief already.
Speaker:God will lead you to those people.
Speaker:Those were key things.
Speaker:And I really want to challenge you.
Speaker:Like sometimes we think, Oh yeah, we're going to do that.
Speaker:But then we forget, or life happens.
Speaker:Write it down.
Speaker:Hold yourself accountable.
Speaker:If you have no one else to hold yourself account, no one else to hold you accountable.
Speaker:Write it down, pray what's next.
Speaker:Start a journal.
Speaker:Be active and take it seriously.
Speaker:And the Lord will bless that he blesses our obedience.
Speaker:So lean into that and you won't be sorry.
Speaker:On a, on a purely practical note.
Speaker:If it's not in my phone, in my calendar, it's not going to happen.
Speaker:So maybe sort of time that even I'm to prayed these days for this, and then whoever God brings to mind, I'm gonna go ahead and contact them by, by Friday.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:An alarm set with labels.
Speaker:It happens.
Speaker:I do too.
Speaker:I feel like it's not my calendar.
Speaker:It's not real.
Speaker:And I want to value people and discipleship and people's hearts and movement forward.
Speaker:As much as I do anything else, I put my calendar like a dentist appointment or something for crying out loud.
Speaker:We don't miss those.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:This is an awful lot to.
Speaker:I think about and, and powerful.
Speaker:Thank you so much for that.
Speaker:Thank you for the perspective and thank you for making the focus, really the freedom we have to be, who God's created us to be.
Speaker:Yeah, no, there's great.
Speaker:Implication of that.
Speaker:And we'll be unpacking that men and women, men with women, women, with women, you know, as God's family, as his beloved.
Speaker:For the rest of our lives, but boy, we get to, and that's, that's beautiful.
Speaker:Thanks so much for being on and sharing this today.
Speaker:I got to wrap this up.
Speaker:Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker:Um, maybe we'll do this again.
Speaker:If we can get the two of you in the same room here, that'd be awesome.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, I have to wrap this up.
Speaker:This has been a blast.
Speaker:I hope this has blessed.
Speaker:You, you might need to share this episode with somebody else, or if you heard in the car by yourself and you go, Oh man, I think my spouse would love to hear this, or I'd love my spouse to hear this.
Speaker:Please do that.
Speaker:Please share this.
Speaker:Talk about these are key things is this is important as we are beginning to mature, hopefully as the church sort of move out of the box for an hour and a half on the weekend and weave it into all of everyday life and see discipleship as a lifestyle.
Speaker:So thanks for being here today.
Speaker:I can't wait to see, see you again.
Speaker:Talk to you again, be with you again in about a week.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Talk to you soon.
Speaker:Thanks for joining us today for more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit Everyday Disciple dot com.